I was’t making a criticism about riders and levels of income.
I was actually speaking to what we were discussing a few pages back which was team/UL ambitions.
An ambitious young working adult who does jumpers wouldn’t be thinking they can go get an OTTB for $1000 and bring it up to top level and team selection in showjumping. That doesn’t happen.
However in eventing, it is a possibility - albeit a very longshot one - for a rider with some skill who finds a talented horse.
But this is something to consider about the young and ambitious in eventing - while they’ve been shut out of the top end sport like jumpers, eventing still holds out team possibilities for them.
Right, and I agree. I know a few people who have thought of going to eventing thinking they would have a better chance of getting to YR finals and such. Not so sure that actually would have worked out for them, but…
However, as someone quite a bit earlier mentioned, if these same people come at it with truckload of ambition and only a thimbleful of common sense and supervision things are dangerously out of balance.
Which is not to say everyone. There are clearly plenty of responsible and ambitious people who go out these as juniors, amateurs, and professionals and do a great job.
But it sounds like your group is looking to help mitigate what can go wrong for those who aren’t quite in a position to save themselves from themselves.
I’ve been mulling around an idea for a couple of days. At this point, we’ve heard nothing about an investigation of the accident. How about an online petition?
From SM, I can see that horses people of all disciplines around the world are rightly upset about this and many have strongly suggested that a transparent analysis of what happened is needed.
Online petitions do have the power of getting attention.
I alway hesitate to post to topics but I have an honest and sincere question. I see a lot of talk about making fences safer and making riders take more responsibility which is great. What I haven’t seen addressed much is how do we change the overall culture that has taken hold of eventing? The culture that seems to say moving up as fast as possible should be your goal? A culture that makes people question whether they should speak up when they see something is wrong? A culture where it seems that if you have money and position in the sport you get a way with a little more when it comes to things like safety and horse welfare?
I honestly think that we can make all the changes people have suggested but it will mean absolutely nothing if we can’t change the way culture of the sport .
Why am I still able to drink my Bier. I should be dead, ketchup, splattered. I wore a proper safety device, when that b… landed on me and used me as a cushion, for her fat ars.
What has changed in car racing, they built a survival cell around the driver. You can not prevent accidents, you have to give the human the equipment to survive, a survival cell.
Did you see the crash at the Daytona this year. 5 years ago Ol’ Newman would have been ketchup. He basically walked away from it. You need to take a look at that MF of a crash, makes your toe nails curl up.
The Exo was the right step in the right direction. The flimsy air thingies are BS, because they can not prevent, that a 1200 pound horse impacting will just crush you and make a hamburger out of you, like an insect getting splattered all over the windshield. Those air vests were developed for motor cycles and to absorb the impact of the rider, but never for a 1200 pound piece of meat crashing into the rider.
Even if the jumps collapses, there is no guaranty, that the first impact will not flip the horse on landing.
No front legs to land on.
Yes it is the same old bullshit discussion and they miss the point completely.
We are fragile, if something crashes into us we are toast.
1200 pound from 2,3,4 feed coming down. Your ribs get pulverized, broken into small pieces and than everything that is in those ribs, get smashed into a pulp, like putting it into a blender.
Take some Lung, heart, liver, kidney and guts and put it in a 1 ton press, quiet a mess, bon appetite, please give me the mayo and the chips.
I am getting hungry, like clean out sewers, always makes me hungry.
I guess I will have some beefsteak tartar to night
How do you prevent that. How to built a vest which can take that load. You have one, I have one, slightly used.
That’s the solution, not the ground line, riding skills, dressage and collection kinder garden that is allways discussed here till you start puking or just laugh, or walk away
Accidents can not be prevented, human, animal, how to survive the consequences, that is what motor sport has done.
Dale Earnhardt jr walked away from the sport, because all the crashes he had, with all the safety devices, could not prevent the brain traumas. A other interesting discussion. Completely under the mirror of eventing.
oh well, now I get again drawn in this senseless discussion.
The ground line folks need some riding lessons in stadium jumping, they have no fricking idea what they are talking about, should learn how to jump.
Wow… if I am paying for someone to coach me… they better not miss to half the fences in a course. AND… if they do miss, they should know how to support it and not catch the poor horse in the mouth. I know that no one is perfect but…
I always feel bad for all the TB’s that go to the eventing homes. I’m not trying to paint everyone with the same brush… it just seems that there is more bad than good in this discipline.
That sounds rather good, blowing things up, 3D printing that stuff, now you are geting up town. That metal stuff you do I allways found fascinating, blowing things up is way cool, but that metal stuff in a body, that is way cool, especially how to fight infections. I have tried to stay up dated on that stuff since we drove together to CA.
A new Shiv, that is something good luck with him.
No eventing is not what we know, it has mutated into a freak show and the cost, forget about it.
I am glad I am out of it. If I would compete, probably Dressage and Stadium. I found a real liking, rather late, for Dressage.
Its in a way like XC, precision and discipline and you need a thinking horse to make a good team.
You remember Harlekin ?
She was a XC machine, but loved Dressage, strutting her stuff I called it, never got below 30 before her and it became her standard, she thought me to like dressage
A recent CBS online article said there will be an investigation by Canada with the US comparator; I forget the appropriate acronym. But I wager it won’t be as thorough or damning as the inquest on the recent Australian riders. We need something like that here. Make the course designer answer tough questions on the record and defend their course. Call up organizers at Rebecca who did not give her a yellow card. Make them answer questions about why they did or did not do better and publish it widely. Have a public hearing. Read us a coroner’s report. Vet report. Make us cringe and cry and shake with fury at ignorance and incompetence and silent acquiescence. I want to hear what others who walked this course and rode it thought of this fence. I want to see photos of the jump the exact time she jumped it to see what the shadows looked like. I want her coach interviewed. I want to know the equipment this horse went in and the kind of helmet and vest and I want to hear how long it took to get her to the hospital and where the vet was when this horse was apparently left to just die on the course, I guess, because we don’t know otherwise, we don’t know anything. We hardly ever do. That’s the problem.
I absolutely agree with you that Eventers should not be crawling around a course. That being said, I’ve had several (not just one or two) students that have gone to USEA Events in Area II and been in the primary colors in BN and Novice, although it has been at least 10 years since I’ve personally had someone go Novice. I will disagree with you that a horse needs to go slow to be technical. Many of my riders have done Medal classes successfully, which may surprise Events to learn that there is a Jumper phase involved, depending on the class. These riders put together a Jumper-type course at speed. They can still put together 10 correct fences that do not leave anyone anyone gasping during their trip. This would be a typical Jumper Medal class. It is ridden at a forward pace. The horse is balanced even on the roll backs and is on the rider’s aids. If the rider was looking for time, I’m certain she could have ridden her corners tighter and pushed the horse a bit more forward without everything falling apart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0VvEbcgKoQ Almost every Eq course will have broken lines, roll backs, and unrelated distances, even Hunter Eq classes.
Hunters also have Handy Hunter rounds, which can make some Jumper courses look straightforward. This pony belongs to one of my students. She bred him. This is his Handy Hunter trip at the Hampton Classic. Of course if they were going for time, the corners would have been tighter. He is certainly moving off a forward stride and not crawling though. The judges love him and he wins everywhere he goes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRL2XpMwKKE
In this this video, the fences are 3’6", but this rider is catch riding this horse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqYxR5zRn-E She was able to put in a decent trip on a horse she doesn’t even know over a fairly big course. I’m not a fan of how this horse carries itself, but the rider ride an excellent job keeping it together.
Technical does not mean slow. A horse in any discipline needs to be balanced and ridable. Riders also need to be balanced and accurate.
Again, I’m not speaking about ALL Eventers, but a significant amount of the trips lack balance in the horse, stability of the rider, and precision of the pair. If ALL of these elements are not there, a horse and rider should not be able to move up the levels.
What if coaches are held liable in some way when their students/student’s horses are seriously injured or killed in competition? If a serious incident triggered some form of evaluation, there would be more hesitation in moving up quickly. Of course, this would mean that there would have to be some form of evaluating whether a rider or horse was overfaced at a certain level. But it is time for eventing to be more creative in order to solve this problem, and that means that people who are at the top of the food chain (ie. coaches) need to be held responsible.
Any MER timing exemption obtaining from Barroca I to Barroca II will only be granted for: - obtaining of an MER in the CCI2*-S (Barroca I) to compete in the CCI2*-L (Barroca II) - obtaining of an MER in the CCI3*-S (Barroca I) to compete in the CCI3*-L (Barroca II)
Earlier year’s exemption for the MER timing made it possible to do your first ever 1* (CCI2*-S) week one and after obtaining a MER go straight into your first ever 2* (CCI*-S) three days later in week two.
And the above is not much better but still just in line with the new age of rushing through the levels no matter the cost.
Seriously…Sometimes coaches have no control over what the client wants to do, I see it all the time but in dressage so it’s not as dangerous but it’s ugly!
It was about the fundraiser & an emergency safety meeting at a horse event.
I really like the idea they proposed that a rider needs a certain dressage score & SJ round score in order to do the XC. If you don’t make the minimum combined score for those 2 events, it’s not your day to move on to the XC phase.
I don’t think this is a good solution at all. One can be more proficient in SJ, have the horse for Dressage, and be an absolute disaster on XC. We’ve all seen this. That puts too much weight on everything but XC and also I don’t like the change in order.
There’s been a few comments on this thread about the design of the table. It had a number of elements that incorporated recent knowledge of safe fence construction. A very rounded leading edge, a slight ascending slope, flagged front and back so horse could see spread and visual cue for takeoff (the bushes). The comments about money being spent on fence decoration are ill-placed in my opinion. A professional fence decorator at the FEI level works closely with the course designer and sometimes the TD to place flowers and decorations strategically to help the horse read the question. A good decorator is not working to be tricky at all but the draw the horses attention to important elements. Well frequently, there are valid questions raised about fence design, my personal opinion is that the investigation in this case needs to be focused elsewhere.
Yes. If it means it could save lives. If someone tells me I looked like crap or Im not ready, I might go cry somewhere after but I will also reflect on it and see where I can improve.
We all need to get the hell over ourselves. Ego has NO place in eventing. No one is above criticism, everyone can improve. I picture the people who someone might talk to being the ones where it is blatantly obvious they are above their level, not just someone who takes a bad flier.
