The problem was not her, it was that multiple people failed to do her a service in allowing her to compete at a level that was way over training. I’m sure she believed she was completely capable and safe.
However that is only one of the issues with XC fatalities. It does however, warrant a discussion.
@JER you’re right about the frangibles and already being hit before they come down. Forgot about that for a second.
It is very heartbreaking for her, however if she thought she was safe, ready and capable than she might want to rethink her coaching at the HP level.
This is our sport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEh8UghjMcU
Actually, it’s just one day in our sport. It’s how we present the very best our sport has to offer.
This is another equestrian sport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v7djtzbckE
The latter has been outlawed in many places.
What’s the difference?
I suppose we can justify what we’re doing because it’s not ‘intentional’ but if you say that enough times, it starts to sound like ‘It isn’t torture when we do it’.
FWIW, I agree with this post. I am sorry that the event continued after their deaths. I can’t imagine how they continued on after such a tragedy. I have no connection to Kat or Kerry, but I am so sorry for all their friends and loved ones, and anyone who witnessed the accident.
Some - not all - posts on here have lacked in empathy and tact. There have also been some interesting safety discussions. However…
The USEA and FEI both have safety committees that should review this accident. I believe the FEI safety subcommittee includes a risk assessment/management component. There should be a comprehensive review of this accident (and all accidents involving horse or rider deaths) conducted by authorities. I think the push should be for the existing committees to beef up their research and analysis into fatalities and how to mitigate risk in the sport by implementing the most beneficial safety measures, be it in course design, education, rider/horse competency, etc. (I think the use of the Equiratings Quality Index, while not perfect, is a good step toward helping evaluate the latter.) I don’t think ad-hoc analysis and recommendations on social media, or crowd-funding for (sometimes unproven) safety equipment will really benefit the sport in the long term, but that’s just my opinion.
I think it goes without saying that we riders need to take responsibility for our own actions as well. But even the best make mistakes and that isn’t likely to change.
I won’t watch upper-level Eventing live. I only watch once I know I won’t see any serious accidents. I don’t have the stomach for it.
I won’t watch UL eventing either. It sickens my stomach as much as a bull fight.
That is wild, I had no idea that many serious falls were happening in one day. :eek:
So much pulling and catching horses in the mouth. I just don’t get the appeal of XC.
How is this ok? I always laugh that I don’t event because I’m too chicken to jump but honest, Even if I wasn’t I would never, ever be willing to do this to my horse.
So… if you want to enact change so that courses are safe and people are smarter at the lower levels, probably it needs to start at the upper levels. If this is ok at badminton, why isn’t it ok at Prelim or Intermediate? If the upper level riders are saying yeah, this level of risk is acceptable - then how can you expect someone at Advanced, or Intermediate, or Prelim, or even BN to not emulate? If you want to eliminate complacency towards the safety culture, it needs to start from the top.
Whether it’s the riding, the course design, whatever. Sure, those badminton riders can ride. They’re phenomenal. And still, their horses are falling. The lower levels are watching. And emulating the idea of what’s considered acceptable risk.
Also, I’m just gonna say that the rider who bailed off his horse when it got stuck between that oxer really impressed me with how quickly he reacted and his immediate attempt to break the horse out himself. So I won’t say they don’t care - I’m sure that they do.
The top rails will break at the Maryland hunt cup and may give enough to not totally flip a horse when they break - they are not 'solid" as in a table or “log”.
And I thought a problem identified was the stop and go nature of courses now. (Did not someone do a study of the significant variations in speed on course??
(And there are still rotation falls at the MD Hunt Cup I believe despite that. Maybe riders tend to be propelled as they ride a lot shorter? )
JER please correct me if I’m wrong.
This wasn’t a montage of how one should jump a XC jump. It was a collection of the best having massive problems. So the question is, how does this get fixed when the best of the best can’t successfully navigate the courses well within their abilities all the time without horrific falls.
ijump many of these riders got unseated, fell behind, and did what they could to not have a fall. So no, eventers don’t go snatching mouths all the time.
No one is saying what is seen in the video is acceptable. It’s not. We do have to recognize that this is what it is now and figure out how do we reduce the number of those incidents. When a XC course eats the best of the best like that something is wrong.
It’s not just riders rushing up the levels, horses that aren’t properly conditioned, unfair questions because the jump breaks apart, not knowing when it’s not your day, the lack of proper body protection we once had, CDs like CMP or TDs who don’t enforce the rules and policies. It’s ALL of these things. There is not one single measure we could take that would solve what we saw in that video. Do things happen? Of course but it shouldn’t happen with the frequency that it is.
Clearly, I, the part time wanna be eventer can only do so much. But these discussions can result in a collective effort. Speaking only for myself I like these discussions because I know way less than a lot of people here and I move a lot so it’s really hard for me to figure out how to get a voice in my own community where ever that maybe next.
Deepest condolences to the friends and family for their terrible loss.
Eventing is not alone when they continue after a fatality. Well, it may well have been for the last 19 years, but it was not when NASCAR had fatalities. My BIL has been on the track crew for a NASCAR track for over 40 years. He told me about a race that someone hit the outside rail (sorry, forgot his name, this was years ago), and by time the track crew got to the bottom edge of the track, there was a pool of blood there. They knew he was dead before they got to the car. They took him away, the announcer told the crowd he will be fine, and they finished the rest of the race card. That was pretty standard procedure.
BIL also claims that the drivers, much like eventers with the EXO, wouldn’t use the newly developed head and neck restraint. They had every excuse under the sun why they didn’t want to use it. Then DE died. Upon his death, the community fully embraced them, along with the other safety improvements that have been instituted, resulting in no deaths since.
I don’t know what it will take for eventing, but for NASCAR, the death of their idol, on live tv, motivated the organization and its drivers to embrace meaningful changes.
Someone, please correct me if I am wrong and I will delete this post. Didn’t I see that this rider competed in PR just two or so weeks before this catastrophic and life ending event? There was also at least another BNR in that group (PR). I know that the system won’t let you enter into a group that you’re not qualified for, but seeing that had me questioning if we need to rethink the qualifications.
Eventing is not only place that the competition continue if there is a horse death, I was working at a A H/J show in the late 80’s a horse died, while competing, fell through an oxer. There was a pause but the action resumed once the body was carried away. Rider was fine. I am not sayong it good or fine or just. Just saying that it does happen.
According to the press release, Katharine died at the hospital not on the course.
What about the spine-protector vests that jockeys are required to wear? Forgive my ignorance, but how do those differ from the EXO?
Yes, we had a hunter drop dead under its rider in the ring at Devon 2019-2018 and they took the necessary time to remove it and fix the footing and then started the class back up and resumed the schedule. The rider was uninjured.
Athina Onassis had a fall in a 5* grand prix overseas in 2014 I believe. She put her horse in a very bad spot and the mare tried to leave and came crashing down in the middle of the fence during a live broadcast and in front of a large group of spectators. They had to put her down right there and use a crane to remove the horse from the ring. Athina landed on her face and looked like she lost a front tooth, but fortunately didn’t get stuck under the horse or roll a little forward and break her neck. They finished the competition. World Cup points and several hundred thousand dollars in prize money were up in the air, since the class nearly finished when it happened. Sunday class…you can’t postpone it without ruining everyone’s travel plans.
Similar when Emily Moffitt crashed For Sale 6 in the Million Dollar in Ocala in 2018, though she was earlier in the class. They were able to get an inflatable splint on and get the horse on a trailer. But the class had started, so there is understandably a huge amount of pressure to let others have their turn if they want when there is that much money and points on the line and the class is started.
Or you can choose to watch better & commend nicer trips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivDCYsK-FAI
I remember a non-horsey friend giving me a hand at an event where I was having a go at training but the competition also ran Prelim & Intermediate—I said “go watch the upper levels”—she came back with the summary of “that is a whole other ballgame”. She was involved in other competitive sports and could appreciate the drive/focus needed to succeed but was definitely left with the impression of a lot of clattering about being done. Unfortunately the good trips are not always highlighted.
Of course you can.
But watching only the ‘nice’ videos doesn’t negate the realities of the sport.
I’ve been to Badminton in person many, many times but it looks a bit horrifying when you put all the horse falls together.
Nothing should " negate reality" but when people see the previously noted Rebecca ride as " not uncommon" or “not as bad as the spills compilation” then they really ought to see some better examples for comparison.
I just watched the Maryland Hunt Cup video, and see that is what I remember as being what xc ought to be. Smooth as glass at a gallop over fences on terrain at speed. That is what I dreamed of, I couldn’t do it, mind you!, but that I thought was the ideal. I don’t, quite honestly, like even the ‘reasonably good’ rides in today’s eventing. If you want to ask questions about a horse’s ability to twist and turn in the air, ask it in SJ not on XC. Ask for heart, for stamina, and a willingness to jump a genuine stone wall in XC.
Why are we coming up with ‘questions’ that are designed to trick the horse? Because, let’s be clear, a lot of modern x-country jumps are designed to be ‘tricky’ and that is another word for ‘deceiving’ we just rather not think of that.
How do we train for and reward the smooth round that was supposed to emulate endurance, smoothness, and speed over terrain?
If we aren’t going to do that…if it is going to be all about flashy, tricky ‘questions’…well I’m glad for my horse’s sake I’m not asking them to trust me so blindly.
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