Brutal.
I do still wonder if there are indicators that can be measured via wearable tech that would help provide objective “red flags” and mandatory actions on the part of officials. Perhaps particularly at lower levels where the goal should be that consistent pace.
It is 11 PP to knock a frangible, and 15 to miss the flags. The flags are just guides and meant to come down, but if you jump outside it is 15pp.
The bolded part has been the mantra in eventing for as long as I can remember.
I would be in favour in calling it a day (the big E) if you knock a frangible. Would make riders be a lot more careful at those ones.
Actually…many of us DON’T feel that way. Reality is that often your really really good UL horses will NOT be competitive at the lower levels. Just because a horse and rider are NOT winning at Novice and Training or even Prelim level do not mean that horse will not be competitive at Intermediate and Advanced. Often, these are the horses that are like cats jumping…super xc horses and jumping horses but perhaps a bit tenser initially in dressage. It isn’t all about being competitive now…but it is about training well and riding well And getting the right experiences. The horse that will always win at the lower levels honestly is like NOT the horse you want to be sitting on for the higher levels. The lower level “Dressage” as opposed to dressage…favors the horses that go a bit more horizontal and lay on your hand a bit. It doesn’t mean you just move up…but it does mean the “competitive” results (i.e. placing) are not a good measure…especially not for whether or not a horse should move up or whether or not a horse will ultimately be an UL horse. These are NOT horses that you will see looking scary. But horses who may not be scoring sub 25 in dressage at the lower levels (And so not super competitive).
ETA: and to be clear…this was also the case when I was with SJs. When training the younger horses, it wasn’t always about winning. It was about training even in a competitive setting. That meant we didn’t always go for the win…especially not with horses we were aiming for higher things.
I’m struggling here. I appreciate that people are trying to find reasons why this happened- as mentioned in previous posts, I see value in that process and think it should be a greater focus of our sport. However, I also see so many assumptions and judgments that are based on little information, specific moments in time, and often, pure speculation.
Please read this in a calm tone. I am honestly trying to see this from all sides, rationally and balanced.
I’m in, say, the sixth or seventh ring according to ring theory of grief (thanks whoever linked that earlier- it’s so important): I knew Kat and used to ride at Sandridge, with the same trainer. And of course the eventing world is small here- everyone knows everyone to some degree. I have friends who are suffering terribly because they knew Kat intimately and were true friends. They peeked at this board initially to try to find comfort or solidarity in that feeling of “how could they keep running the event after this happened” but quickly had to stop looking after some of the cruel comments on here, for their own mental health. Not hard-to-read comments, or “too soon comments”… harsh and unfounded comments that weren’t helpful. I won’t rehash all that now. I don’t know what’s good for me, and can’t stop following the thread- or maybe I feel like someone has to keep an eye on this for Kat’s sake. I do think there has been some good discussion, and I appreciate the willingness to try to find answers and make positive change happen.
It’s bewildering though. In this thread, people have judged Kat’s riding as dangerous, made suppositions about her income, her motivation, her ego, even what was going through her head as she approached the jump. They’ve judged her horse as not having enough scope, the right brain for the level, said she was an unwilling partner, and a tragic casualty of ego. People have made decisions regarding her coach’s riding and teaching abilities, and motivations and values.
I just have to say that for those of us who knew Kat, these were not our experiences. Kat was respected and admired at the barn, for her excellent horsemanship, her kindness, and her positive energy. She was brave- yes, very brave. Which is typically something we admire in eventing- though when things turn for the worse, it’s easy to point at that with hindsight as being reckless instead. To me, that feels like turning on one of our own, for a trait that we actively encourage and celebrate in the sport.
I just really want to remind everyone that Kat was all of us- she loved her horse, knew she had a lot to work on, and was actively working on them by seeking out multiple trainers and doing the homework. She knew Rebecca was a disaster- I won’t say more because again, that’s not my place.
But explaining away her death by saying it was her dangerous riding, or her ego, or her coach’s negligence is:
A. potentially not accurate- there is only so much you can do with videos over the internet, no matter what you would like to believe, you are making judgments with limited information. Note, I said potentially: I don’t claim to be the expert on anyone else’s riding or decisions. And,
B. will not keep you or others safe- it puts you in more danger actually if you think that what happened to her wouldn’t happen to you because you’re a better rider, or more self-aware, or have a better coach, or whatever. Because she wasn’t doing anything different from most eventers: she was enthusiastic about moving up the levels (ambition is not inherently bad, just as lack of ambition isn’t), and athletic and fit, and had a horse that had potential (by the standards of other UL riders that I will not expand on- not my right).
So, I agree we need to come together to solve this huge glaring problem in the sport. I think it should be with a combination of rider/horse competency, data analysis, and course safety. And safety equipment, if there’s more to be done there (like the vests).
If there’s a constructive way to use Kat and Kerry as an example of what we could do better in the sport, for the sake of our riders and horses, then I support that! I do believe in root cause analysis, and investigation, and understanding the path to disaster so we can prevent others. That has to be done by the right people/bodies/organizations though. I don’t think it’s constructive, empathetic, or even necessarily accurate to make declarations about her riding or that of her coach based on some videos. I know some will argue with that, saying they show a trend etc, but those are still moments in time. The argument has been used to prove the exact opposite in this very thread, to show that anyone can find a bad video or picture of a good horseman- no one is perfect at all times. They just don’t show the whole story. Even worse is if we make judgments about what they were thinking or about their values/motivations as a result of videos.
I guess that’s mostly what I came to say. It’s easy to look back and find all the red flags and connect the dots, so if we can prevent anyone else from getting hurt let’s analyze those, but I do worry that no one seems to realize that Kat was just like the rest of us. Fully immersed in a sport she loved, with a horse she treasured.
Brilliant idea to reboot EXO or its next generation. I was just thinking time might be right for a reissue if one could make it happen.
@JER Eventers can learn and change. Who ever thought helmets would replace top hats in UL dressage?
@subk yes $500 is a lot of money for a vest but it is close to nothing if you think of it as an insurance premium. Especially as it wouldn’t be a frequently recurrent expenditure. Think of it in the same category of expenses as having good tires on your truck and trailer.
Agree to disagree. Sometimes when we are close to things it is hard to be objective and see a clear picture.
It was not one bad event. It was not one bad video. There are many examples on YouTube. If you can not see the issues with her, her horse, and her coach allowing this then you are either not able to because you are too close to the situation, or do not have an educated eye. Wearing flip flops at the trailer is another fine example showing that safety was not at the forefront.
This is not bashing Kat, this is nothing like that. This is calling a spade a spade and pointing out things that could have potentially saved her life.
In your opinion, knowing her, do you think she was at the appropriate level (Prelim or Intermediate) for her and her horses skill and training? In mine she was not, would be interested in hearing yours.
With all due respect, while jumpers do not frequently use ground lines, we have very specific rules on using false ground lines because they can suck horses and riders under a fence and into a crash. After looking at the fence where this incident took place, I would say it has a false ground line asking you to run underneath or leave too long and hang a leg or chip one in.
The thing is, the USEA currently doesn’t even require a BETA 3 vest which that research shared back shows it increases the safety of riders. This was submitted for a rule change and it was denied.
Is USEA serious about rider safety or not??
People like to win in every disciple, I’m pretty sure. That said, I’ve seen plenty of really great hunter riders add a step on green horses to give them confidence. The schooling jumper division awards a blue ribbon for a clear round. A lot of times it has nothing to do w placing…its building confidence as an investment in the future for that horse.
This was supposed to be with my quote from Alterforme.🤷🼔♀ï¸
I agree, but getting the EXO back on the market poses at least one major problem: fit.
I saw Gnep’s in person. If I remember correctly, it was one of the bigger sizes and he had to make modifications to enlarge it to fit him correctly. And he is a slender, male person.
As a female, with breasts, there was no way it would ever fit me. This would be a problem for many eventers: they’re female and not of the prepubescent body style.
Of course, which is why comparing when riders move up in H/J vs Eventing is not a valid comparison. I also think using the combined scores for dressage and SJ as the measuring stick to okay a rider to enter the start box is not a valid measuring stick.
The EXO would adapt to the market. More sizes would be available if there was a demand
The anti-EXO arguments remind me of the arguments people used to make against approved helmets: ‘my head will get so hot I’ll pass out’ ‘no helmet will fit my weird head’, etc.
I have an EXO. I’ve previously posted a video of how easy it is to get on and off without assistance. Would be happy to post again if anyone would like to see it.
The problem here is the cumulative effect of hits that don’t break the clip/pin.
A succession of horses hits the rail hard but not enough to deploy. Then a horse hits it not so hard and the clip/pin breaks.
Under your scenario, the horse that breaks it would be E’d and the horses who, in effect, set up the break wouldn’t be E’d.
YEG, people on this thread have made that very same point over and over again. The way I put it was ‘she was one of us’.
That’s why we’re so determined not to let something like this happen again.
Please accept the fact that there is no known universe in which her riding would be considered safe. Same goes for her trainer’s riding as demonstrated in videos. Her trainer might have certifications and whatnot but she was not instilling principles of safe riding in her student and she was not showing good judgment by apparently letting her student move up the levels this way.
Pass/fail dressage = competence.
BUT…there’s a reason using an n of 1 holds little weight in peer-reviewed science. And there’s a reason continually narrowing the conversation down to an n of 1 here doesn’t provide safety on XC in general. If Katherine’s riding was the problem, then it would be solved with her passing. However, she’s gone and it sounds like everyone is still concerned there’s a fundamental problem.
So fix the PROBLEM, not each person.
Yes, there have also been comparisons to steeplechasing and timber races (like the Maryland hunt cup) where horses go MUCH faster and jump upright solid fences. There are surprisingly few rotational falls. Watch the Hunt Cup. It’s scary as heck but it shows that speed is not what’s causing the isues.
Trainer posted this today… I really, really feel for her.
What can one say? I am unutterably heartsick.
To lose a dear friend is a terrible thing. To lose a student… unthinkable. Kat was both. How? How can such a thing happen? What do you do when you lose someone whose safety was your primary goal? There are no manuals for this. No coaching courses on how to handle such a tragedy. You go over and over it in your mind. You count the clears, the qualifiers, the numerous successes, the ribbons for all the placings. You know they were honestly ready. You know you couldn’t even have held them back… They were confident and prepared. It wasn’t a difficult jump or an inappropriate course. They had already done the level, and done it very successfully. They had earned the right to ride that day. It wasn’t an FEI or a championship or even that hard for the level. It was generally considered an upgrade type of course. Not even with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight could anyone have denied them this run. Kat was a strong rider and fully capable. It was just one terrible, awful, tragic missed stride. We’ve all had one. I know I have, but I got lucky - I walked away with only broken ribs. But still…Dear God… Should I have slowed you down more in your quest for success? Is there something I missed? Some coaching comment I could have made in that final warm up that would have made the difference? Some way I could have saved you? Unfathomable. Unbearable. How can absolute emptiness be so heavy? I love you, Kat.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
