That wasn’t my experience, they were a very restrictive type of BP.
they also required a key access to get them off, so if you did have a medical emergency that had to be located.
Back when they were in production riders were just as concerned about safety and rotational falls. It seems that people are looking back at them now through rose coloured glasses.
I reiterate they were not popular due to the design, not because there was a widepread boycott due to any other reason.
I am not familiar with the proper legal terminology but I will attempt to explain my understanding of the lack of successful lawsuits.
Riding is considered and well known to be dangerous. Most states recognize this or no one would be able to insure their stables.
Jumping is considered dangerous as well. If a competitor falls at a jump that other people have had no issue with, it is very difficult to argue that the jump was the cause of the fall.
I think I am being the opposite of callous by saying that cancelling it is not the best option. Unless you have guarented in the space of time that you decide to announce that there was an incident severe enough to cancel the event (and who wouldnt jump to the conclusion that there was a death of course) that all the family has been notified, the organization has a duty not to look to the care of the individuals competing, but the wellbeing of the family.
I know it seems like I am stuck on this, but well, I am. In all our training and workshops, we have always emphasized the duty to keep information out of social media and the news until it’s been told to the family and official. I can imagine the horror of finding out a loved one died, because the show announced a death (with or without a name) and it made it to social media. I have been the person who saw a mother find out in a terrible fashion, that their son died. I was doing CPR when she walked out of the house to see who was in the accident in her front yard. Different situation, but I will never forget the sound of someone finding out their world as they knew it was over. Now imagine if they found that out, home, alone, and couldnt reach anyone for verification.
Maybe in years before social media and cell phones, you could be less circumspect. Not anymore. I am not being callous. I just care less about the individuals competing that day then I do for the family who lost someone they loved.
That being said, you also want to ensure the jump judge and first responders are taken care of, and given time and resources to process and heal. I hope that this is occurring.
Actually, just because there are these laws to protect horses and skiing, doesn’t mean it stops lawsuits. The ski industry here is still sued regularly, and successfully. The same goes with barns.
The key to such a suit is that one does not need to claim a specific fence is where the liability exists. The plaintiffs could argue the entire venue, the organizer, the course builders all contributed to the liability. And in civil cases you only have to reach a 50.1% reasonable certainty.
So, if a course designer has courses where other riders have been killed, then they could state the CD has a past history for designing dangerous courses and fences. Of a rider is killed at a venue, then the venue could also be blamed.
The more rules, standards, and claims to regulating riders that come about could also open up the governing bodies as it could be argued that they have insufficient standards (especially if there is not data being why the standard was instituted).
Rally Raid motorcycle racing had its Dale Earnhardt moment 2 months ago. Elite rider Paulo Goncalves died on course. The top rider in the world had to finish the stage after trying to resuscitate him at the scene, riding another 90 minutes at his normal high risk speed. The biggest rally race in the world let the moto competitors ride hors concours the next day but the rally went on, another rider being killed on the penultimate day of racing. Paolo’s team did withdraw, however.
Motorcycle road racing at Isle of Man has fatalities almost every year but typically finishes the race. Macau GP motorcycle this year was halted after a rider death.
Its off topic, I know, but it just illustrates that it really depends on the specific competition whether the show goes on or not. It also shows the type of sports that eventing is struggling alongside as the competitors try to balance risk and safety.
Has this approach been successful when used to sue event venues or course designers? I realize that a lawsuit can be filed but have there been any that have been successful?
Oh, how horrible that must have been for everyone.
In the eventing world, no. But in western and rodeo etc. yes.
I’m surprised at the Rodeo success. Was a child involved?
I think the legal approach you spoke of, for Eventing, would require a litigant with tenacity and very deep pockets.
Now that the FEI has mandated since Fall 2019 that frangible tech should be used wherever possible (but they did not state tables should be included) perhaps a wrongful death suit claiming negligence will be more successful than they may have been in the past.
Good point. Not that I agree with our (U.S.) penchant for lawsuits…
But to do that, you’ll have to clean house.
The insiders aren’t going to do this. They haven’t done it yet despite all the fatalities.
It’s not going to happen on their watch. We’ll get more lip service and DOC will talk about his table and they’ll make frangible knick knacks to decorate the jumps.
We have a dangerous riding rule. Is it enforced? We have the blood rule. Is it enforced? We have the Watch List. Have the safety officials seen it?
No more discretionary rules with this lot. They can’t be trusted to enforce them in such a way that contributes to a culture of safety.
The Allen key is clearly labeled. You can see the white/green patch on the side of my EXO in the video.
When this excuse came in in the UK, WoofWear distributed Allen keys to all safety/ambulance people at HTs.
For much of my adult life, I’ve been an EMT. From that POV, this is a non-issue. The EXO has clear labeling on how to remove the vest. A conventional BP does not.
About the Exo.
It was a very well designed and engineered product. But on a very slim budget…
The ones that were produced and sold, were measured for European, English female.
None was ever measured or produced for males.
I was when I bought it 5,9 and weight average around 155 to 160 pounds. Not much for a male. Having a farm requires a lot of physical labour and riding 4 to 5 horses a day is hard work. Additional I constantly worked with weights to improve my core strength. Very strong back muscles and very strong belly muscles. That made the fit a little tight, to close the locks above the hips. I did contact the producer and they explained to me all of that and explained to me since I have a rather good understanding how mechanics and stuff like this works how to adjust the locks. They even were willing to send me longer tongued locks. It never happened because the vest went out of production.
Since the west was designed for females I had plenty of room at the chest.
It took me several days to adjust the shoulder straps to get at tied fit.
Two things I noticed the vest rides high towards the neck area, because the titanium cage goes over the shoulders, but their is plenty of room for free head movement, very comfi. The vest prevents you from rounding your back, actually something very good.
It is bulky, the weight, did not matter to me.
It takes some work to get used to it, its stiff and bulky. So I made it a point to wear it every day, even doing my farm work.
I did the same thing when vests became mandatory and when I finally understood that wearing a helmet while riding a horse is a good thing, till it becomes natural.
You get on that horse and have your helmet and vest on. Like getting in your car and automatically put that seat belt on.
Without it you feel nacked.
Every one of my students had to follow those rules. First they moaned and groaned because 90 to 100 F, I am to hot.
One month later they were used to it. No T-Shirt, long sleeves, you hit the ground in a T, the skin of your arms was gone, road rash.
Sweat like a pig ( pigs do not sweat ), get used to it. Every body got used to it.
I am not joking, I stood in my arena, giving lessons, with a vest and a helmet on, for hours, to set the example.
The problem, most folks wear that equipment only during show time and at the occasionally XC training.
That vest goes after each sow to the dry cleaner and than hangs on a hanger with the plastic film protector in the closet. My vests were bleached out, within a few month, had patches all over.
A new Exo would not be Titanium, maybe some, it would be made mostly made out of carbon fiber, far lighter.
I had 2 rotational, the first one with 20 at a Advanced long format 3 day, the good Ol Days, shirt helmet no vest, no jump design guidance, no footing preps like a golf course, flipped at an oxer. Was rather lucky, because I just got a glancing blow. 6 month in the hospital, right rib cage caved in, penetrated lung, 4 times, liver severely bruised, kidney some bleeding, right leg twice broken, shoulder right dislocated, right arm 3 times broken, left arm once, concussion, out for several minutes. My right leg had to be rebroken ones, to make it straight and my right arm twice.
Recupe 1 year, my horse good Ol Fuego, was beaten up, too. Took us 2 years to get him back, he became my father’s hunting horse for rather advanced and wild hunts.
Second happened at home and got hit dead center, 1200 pounds, buff. I had a very bad concussion, hitting the ground that hard, not hitting with my head, just the impact of my body.
When my horse came down on me the vest did what it wad designed for. The bulk prevent a direct impact on my head. Naturally the vest deformed, spread and I had 3 broken ribs, some rather colourful bruises in the belly section, but again the bulk prevented that my hip was shattered. It was still meatwagon time, but I was out of the butcher shop the next day.
The biggest problem was the TBI, took 2 years and the doc convinced that it was time to call it quit.
I was rather lucky to survive numero uno, by all means, it was a 1200 pounds blow to the right side, center, catch up, get the chips and mayo out and have a dip.
Number 2 was a center hit, catch up time, did not happen, 3 broken ribs, that’s all.
All I remember of the last one, Hitting the ground and than looking up and seeing that big arse coming down, oh shit.
Of the first one no memory at all, which is good.
The Exo is the right way, it was not the most comfi, but we can do better today. You can have your legs broken, they are not vital organs, if your lung, heart, kidneys, liver and all the bones that protect them get smashed into a pulp you are dead.
Simple as that
Yes the sport should do better about jump design, but primarily it should do better about the safety equipment for riders and demand that future safety vests should be able to handle the impact of a 1200 pound horse and than make them regulation.
I went to the safety crews with my vest and showed them and had them do the dismantling, I even gave them spare Allen Wrenches, they are metric, every show I did with that vest.
They loved the vest, because it was rigid, they could role you on your back, take it apart, leave your back part on and use it for spinal cord insuries
This to nth degree.
If we know that cause of death in the majority of eventing fatalities/serious accidents is blunt force trauma or massive crush injuries to the chest (your horse crushing you) then this is exactly what we should be trying to protect ourselves from.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
Gnep, those are very valuable stories about your falls, thank you for sharing. Not many can say they survived two rotational falls, and the second you survived because of your precaution of wearing the vest at home. Sobering.
The last time I went prelim was in '79. Most of the fences were max, but the most “technical” question was a vertical over water in a treeline approached from a slight embankment. No one fell, but everyone but an intermediate combination going hors de concours had time faults. There was one combination set on area of rolling ground. There was a triple bank into water and an Irishbank, all big,but straight-forward. There were no tables, but yes, at that time we considered such jumps safer because they could be banked. It was fun, and while accidents can happen, at the time it seemed relatively safe. I won that event when the leader dropped a rail in stadium. But a few years later, the higher level courses began their level creep. I had dropped back to training level because my horse was older, but right then and there I made the decision that if I got a new horse, I would not complete above TL. As it happens, the next horse preferred H/J, and the o he after that dressage. But while I love to watch the big events, I doubt I would attempt much above novice these days. It is all very sad.
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