@JER do you believe the male rider who is pro EXO that there are fit issues?
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I’m not saying there weren’t fit issues.
I do think the fit issue thing gets parroted by people who’ve never seen an EXO.
Again, the EXO isn’t the Parthenon marbles. It can come back in a new improved form. It can have more sizes available. There are probably new manufacturing processes that could make production more cost efficient and more accommodating to all the unique shapes we seem to have in eventing.
Why do people seem to think a product can’t be adapted to fit market demands?
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I know someone brought up Courtney King Dye on this thread already, but I think it’s worth bringing her up again in the context of the EXO.
After CKD’s life-altering accident, she became an outspoken advocate for helmet use in dressage. It used to be unthinkable that you would see helmets on top dressage riders in competition or the warm up ring: “they’re hot,” “they’re sooo uncomfortable and heavy,” “they definitely won’t fit my weird-shaped head,” “they go against tradition,” etc. And those sentiments echoed down to every level. I remember never ever seeing a dressage rider with a helmet on growing up. Ever. Even after many other disciplines had embraced it, we were woefully behind the times.
CKD - and very importantly, since she was out of the saddle, other notable names - stepped up and said “it’s time to change” - and then led by doing. Steffen Peters is a good example of this. He was extremely shaken by Courtney’s accident and it caused him to change his behaviour - and with the BNRs changing, so too did the lower levels. I honestly can’t recall seeing anyone in real life school dressage without a helmet in the past 8+ years.
So, the EXO or whatever its new iteration may be: You cannot tell me that if some of the really big name riders - MJ, for example - said “hey it’s time to change and these are the way to go” and then changed his behaviour by wearing one all the time that they wouldn’t take off. And yes, maybe the original EXO had fit issues, but in a time when we can 3d-print prosthetic limbs surely we can make a better EXO-esque vest.
@AskMyAccountant.17 is bang on with the power of social advertising. If Upper Level riders put their weight behind this technology, they could create culture change AND purchasing demand.
CKD’s accident felt like a total freak occurrence - just cantering a horse along and boom. Nothing’s the same. And the videos of her speaking up and advocating are incredibly impactful.
The eventers who are suffering the kinds of falls where EXOs would have helped are so often not here to share their stories. They can’t make videos that create a ripple effect the way CKD did because they’re gone. Someone with a big voice needs to step up and say what they can’t.
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I don’t think anyone thinks that, or is trying to argue against a product that protects from crush injuries. It’s important to recognize the issues (perceived or real) that led to the EXO’s failure, so they can be improved, if you want it to succeed the next time.
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Yep. Too bad the pros instead choose to support air vests with no actual safety data, regularly pushing them on social media.
and even MJ whom I love, refuses to get rid of the top hat because “tradition”.
Can’t believe I am saying this but I can’t wait for tradition to die in equestrian sport.
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Just to follow up on the CKD example with another discipline, it would be interesting to know how Fallon Taylor’s advocacy wrt helmets in the western world has impacted sales.
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This may be the case but so many of the posts against the EXO read like its not even worth trying to get it or a comparable product back on the market.
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Yeah. THIS. I was thinking the same thing. It took one rider with a life altering - but not life ending - injury to change the face of dressage. I have “friends” who bitched BIG TIME about the new helmet rules. I’d always worn mine so it was just a sensible change, to me. The fact that CJD and RD and other very big name riders put helmets on and did not take them off, before it was even officially mandatory, was the big necessary push.
I’m sure this can be done with an EXO-type vest too.
And if multiple things are underway ----
Frangibles
EXO-type vest
some kind of policy that rewards safe and error free rounds and that penalizes broken pins, missed distances, or out of control moments
Some kind of penalization for course designers if a fence causes too many problems. Recognition for safe design.
then maybe there’s a shot at actually making a change. But it’s multifaceted. And probably requires funding. Would you all be willing to have $X added to your membership fees to fund a company like Champion’s design research for appropriate, crush-impact-protecting vests?
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Before even going there, it is important to address the issue as it is now, that USEA allows un-tested vests, and does not require BETA 3 vests. Before going after something new, why not press USEA to make a change NOW with requiring BETA 3 like the UK and Canada have?
I honestly can’t see them caring about this based on past actions.
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This is exactly it. Half the time, I can’t even get clothes to fit me correctly (and I know it’s because I’m built strangely – recently I sent measurements taken with an actual tape measure to a manufacturer for an order, and they told me certain parts of my body measured SIX SIZES different from certain other parts according to their sizing chart. They forced me to go to “a professional” to be re-measured. The measurements were not wrong.)
I badly want an EXO. I do not want to be crushed by my horse. I want safety equipment that will prevent that in the event of a mistake (and I know that is not an air vest), and I will spend whatever money I need to spend to procure such equipment – be that scrimping in other areas, eating some ramen, or skipping a couple shows for the next few years. Fine. What I do not want is to publicly tell a company I will buy a product if they re-release it, not end up buying one because I cannot find one that will fit, and then have my non-purchase used as proof that the product has no place in the market when it definitely does. I want to be clear from the outset that what we want is not for them to put the EXO back on the market. We want them to put the EXO back on the market in versions that will easily fit the majority of riders. If the company doesn’t understand they have a fit issue, they will blame the market for a lack of sales, and we will never get this product to succeed when we badly need it to do so.
Yes. I’d rather give money to the USEA who would then allocate it for that research through grants (similar to what the NFL has done for helmets) instead of giving it directly to corporations where there is less accountability, but I will take what I can get. I will happily and consistently give money to whoever is working on the design and launch of a crush-preventing safety vest. Take my money. Please!
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Lane Frost was gored to death by a gentle bull who ‘accidentally’ got him through his shirt (no vest). Everyone loved Lane. EVERYONE. 31 years later kevlar vets are mandatory, and some wear helmets and some wear helmets with face masks (if tyou’re born in 1994 or later, helmets are required). But a vest won’t save every competitor.
“The death of bull rider Lane Frost in 1989 prompted significant changes to safety in the sport: Riders are required to wear protective Kevlar vests, which guard against punctures from a bull’s horn, as well disperse the impact of the animal’s weight if stomped.”
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It’s not that the equipment is going to save someone every time, but when you get on a horse or a bull or indulge in whatever high risk activity you do, don’t you insofar as possible “stack the deck” to give yourself the very best shot at a successful outcome? If there is technology out there that stacks the deck in my favor against a crush injury from my horse, I’d really like access to it.
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This is probably the stupidest idea I’ve ever posted, and I’m pretty sure Reed and Gnep among others will disabuse me of it. All I can say is it came to me in a dream during a nap (:))
What if an airbag (obviously very large and sturdy, and probably mounted in a channel along the top of a jump) was to deploy when a fence was hit hard enough to cause a rotational fall? The horse, and quite possibly rider, would be bounced back to the take off zone but wouldn’t go heels over teacups. It would not deploy if the horse tapped its hooves on the fence or banked it. Fence crew could remove it and install another prepped “cartridge” consisting of the bag and inflation canisters after deployment. The horse might be so freaked out it would never jump again, but it would still be alive as would the rider.
Remember I said it was a stupid idea. I’m going to go get a cup of tea now.
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i admit i have not read all 41 pages,
life saving technology for riders is a great goal, but surviving a rotational fall that still results in the death of the horse seems to be an answer to only half the question.
we need to prevent rotational falls
i fear the EXO may cause a very small percentage of eventers to throw caution to the wind and ride irresponsibly, knowing that they will be okay if they flip a horse over a fence, and if the horse dies, they have other horses / owners.
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Falls in which horse crush riders cannot be eliminated completely. Gnep explained this very well a few pages back. On the study death list linked to earlier, there are victims on the list who were crushed by their horses but not in a rotational fall at a jump. Cindy Burge, for example, was killed in a HT when her horse slipped and rolled over on her.
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No rider wants to flip a horse onto themselves. That’s a rubbish argument, especially as you can wear all the EXOs you want and still get a head/neck/spinal injury.
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Why would grown adults need to make excuses? That’s actually super belittling to the people that chose for various reasons not to buy it for them.
Quit with the “it was some big conspiracy” and calling people “stupid” because they don’t share your viewpoint.
Real life actual people are telling you why they wouldn’t buy it, and it had nothing to do with its marketing or the price tag. The air vests prove that nicely.
it’s great it works for you, it really is. No one is suggesting there isn’t place for something like it.
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I’ve heard these same ‘reasons’ about all sorts of safety equipment. I’m sure many people here remember the helmet debate from the late 1990s. COTH had actual written and published columns by horse show bigwigs who insisted their head was more protected in a Patey hat than in an ASTM-approved helmet. I used to be into motorcycles and way back in the 1980s, state were moving to mandate proper helmets. I heard all the same ‘reasons’ then too - I can ‘t see, my head is too hot, I’ll overheat, I can’t turn my head, no helmet will ever fit my head. The sport might be different but the excuses are the same.
I never said anything about any conspiracy and have no idea what you’re referring to. (However, I am a real-life expert on the JFK assassination but I don’t recall anything about that on this thread. Maybe I got my BBs confused and if so, sorry.)
I did say that eventers were stupid for not buying the EXO. And I meant it. We have a MOI that has a very high death/serious injury rate and accounts for approx 85% of fatalities in the sport. If there is a passive safety device that protects from that MOI, then it’s the unintelligent decision not to use it. Stupid is not wearing your seatbelt in the car. This is no different to me.
WTF do people think they’re protecting themselves from when they pile on the Tipperary unapproved and the air vest? Does anyone have an answer for that? Karen O’Connor maybe?
Well then good. I hope not. Some of these posts seemed to me to be saying that but I hope you’re right on this point.
@Ubu&Goober Thanks. Weight - that’s a bizarre argument in terms of it being unfair to UL horse owners.
Especially an amount that trivial. I’ve known people with very heavy long hair to lose more than that amount with a haircut.
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