So, if you’re saying the only option to prevent injury and/or death from rotational falls it to wear an EXO vest and not to address the actual jumps in question that tend to cause the most accidents, then my answer is simple. NO EVENTING FOR ME. I don’t want to risk my horse’s life, and EXO does absolutely NOTHING to protect my horse!!! How crazy that we have pages and pages and PAGES all looking to protect ourselves with absolutely no concern for our horse? Shameful. Absolutely shameful. What have we become as equestrians?
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No one is saying that.
There are plenty of suggestions on this thread about making eventing safer for horses.
However, there’s always the issue of the horse falling on XC - possibly even not connected with an obstacle - and crushing the rider.
We’re not so worried about the rider crushing the horse. Eventing has no history of this happening.
Hence, the need for a rigid passive safety device that can prevent the most common cause of rider fatalities on XC.
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There are dozens of threads and thousands of pages discussing this for over a decade, just because it is not in THIS thread at THIS time does not mean it is not on our minds.
Although I do agree with you; no more eventing for me for now. Not until TPTB start to take this seriously.
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Very sad to hear of a rider and horse death. I can’t fathom how there was not a yellow card from the previous ride posted, that should be automatic. I think there needs to be a strict rule as to what constitutes a yellow card or elimination. We’ve seen clearly unsafe riding go unchecked, bloody mouths go unchecked, etc. I know there are some cases where things are subjective, but going off course into that field was not. ML’s horse’s bloodied mouth is not.
Frangibles are a step, but do nothing if course designers take them as an opportunity to make clearly deceiving fences because it’s not as solid. Some questions don’t need to be asked of our horses. That log in the water from the facebook page? Yeah, not asking to jump that. That’s not a fair question for a horse.
Yes, there is rider responsibility and we should know better than to overface ourselves and our horses, but there needs to be some accountability on the officials to stop an unsafe pair as well, and for course design to not lend itself to an unreasonable amount or risk as well.
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Another email sent.
#woofwear
#EXO
#bringbacktheEXO
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It is not about markets, its about rules. Seatbelts and airbags became a common piece of equipment because law makers said so.
Proper helmets and Safetyvest became a common piece of equipment, because the rule makers said so.
In both cases people threw a fit.
If the rule makers in eventing wanted it, they could have changed the rules on safety equipment 10 years ago and ruled, in 3 years only vests that can take the impact of a 1200 pounds horse going at 40 mph and crashing into the rider from 5 feet up, will be allowed.
We would today have multiple suppliers, custom made vests included. Tested vests, no supplier claims.
Eventing USA is a rather small market. The true market is in Europe.
But US Eventing reflects the whole attitude, stop gaps, muddling the waters. Nobody is willing to make the big decision, because it might loose some customers.
Yes horse safety is a big deal, too. Very important. I had one horse blow out a aorta, died on course. Rather devastating experience. Gives you a rather good pause of thought, what are we doing to our best friends.
Run them till they die ?
Every time, you go out and do your hard core conditioning, not talking T and lower, P, I, A, miles and miles of galloping, heart rates at close to 200, you are taking that risk. The up and downs of interval training, going at a easy 500 and than pushing to 1000 and more, one stumble and the crap hits the fan. Not competition, just getting ready for it…
T and below there is hardly any danger for the horse. You decide to go P and more, you have made the decision of seriously endangering your horse. The higher the level the higher the danger.
Its not about BN, N and T, very save levels.
It starts with P and 1 Stars, were the shit hits the fan and you have to be rather honest. You very much love your horse and give it what ever it needs, the best of everything, its your very best friend. But than you use it for your pleasure or your goals, which might kill it.
Its not Eventings decision, its yours. You can not handle it, do not event.
Eventings first responsibility, prevent humans kills and than horse kills
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True but trying to create a market might be the only way to start to get this done as there don’t seem to be any rule makers with the will to do it.
So, (because I’m new to this discussion, I ask) has there been any coordinated effort by USEF/USEA members to push for more rules (e.g. a petition aimed directly at the safety committee) that reflect the discussions on this board? Maybe at least starting with something simple, like making it a rule that ASTM/BETA certified vests be used during the cross-country phase? I would hope there would be no push-back on that. That being said, I’m Canadian, so I could be totally off base.
Despite the popularity of the Tipperary vests, I bought a BETA 2009 Level 3 Airowear vest several years years ago when I started schooling cross-country, because I didn’t see the value in a vest that didn’t meet safety standards. That was well before EC made them a requirement in competition. There are several brands, including Tipperary, that make certified vests now. So that market already exists.
I’m repeating myself, but I think putting pressure on the governing bodies would be more effective than trying to revive a discontinued product from one company that already relinquished its patent. (BTW, I’m not suggesting people don’t contact Woof Wear - it doesn’t hurt. I’m just skeptical they will revive it at this point.)
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Personally, I’m all for XC having all fences that fall down. I’d feel better for both myself and my horse. I used to want to go advanced one day, to ride a four star course just once, even if I was dead last. But I don’t want to break my friends down, I don’t to put myself or my horse at such a high risk, and I don’t want to devote most of my life to keeping a string of horses fit and sound to make that happen. So I think P might be the highest I want to go now. I don’t see how making all jumps that fall down under hard impact as taking anything away from the sport. Make it like show jumping where rails (or jumps) fall and you’re penalized for it. The sport has been changing from what eventing was for decades, why not help it change in a positive, safer direction? (flame suit on :p)
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I think a big thing about making the jumps fall down is that, for one, course designers will then take that as an excuse to make courses even more complicated and unfair for the horse (like the frangible log where the horse has to leap out over the log into the water, which will probably cause plenty of falls due to the momentum of the horse from having to jump that big suddenly being taken away once they hit the water). Another issue I can think of is that by having some jumps that will come down and some that won’t, I worry that the horses might start thinking that they will all come down and not take any as seriously. And what appears to be at least a little bit of this most recent death is that the jump they fell at was looked at as a let up jump, not taken as seriously.
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This is really all that needs to be said here.
You can make every XC jump a showjump and even drag/aerovate tracks till they’re like groomed arena footing - and you’re still going to have horse falls.
Read the causes of death. You have situations where the horse stumbles and falls on the rider. Or slips and falls on the rider. Or the rider is thrown clear and then the horse rolls on the rider.
If 85% percent of deaths in eventing - this would be 50+ fatalities in the sport since 1990 - are due to the rider being crushed by the horse, then to lower the rider fatality rate, you have to protect against this MOI.
We know from basic horse/human physics and eons of testing in other sports/activities that a rigid, passive safety device is necessary.
Eventing is stupid - and I mean collectively, massively stupid - for not taking action on this.
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Yep can’t really compare hunters and eventers. And I agree, that little grey horse was not sound. Saw that very early in the video.
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The issue also is that horses hit XC fences. I’m surprised how many don’t know this. The fences are supposed to be designed so the horses can slide over if needed, that’s why so many horses are greased up before XC. Can you imagine how many poles would be flying out there if we had jumps that fell down. Jumps falling down at 550mpm is not exactly safe.
If you want to jump jumps that fall down, do jumpers or hunters. This is not what eventing is and does not support the purpose whatsoever.
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So in line with this thread, there is a rider entered at an event this weekend in the Prelim. This rider had a bad fall last year in the Prelim and then went back to Training. This is younger rider, not sure of exact age. She rode with Ingrid Klimke at the symposium and showed up with a huge bit and a horse that had serious holes in its training. Ingrid told her if she can’t do basic flatwork in a snaffle, she shouldn’t be eventing at all, and especially not at Prelim. The rider couldn’t do the simple cavaletti exercise, she cried and Ingrid told her she had to try doing it without holding onto the horses face etc. Anyways, Ingrid was amazing with her throughout it all but you could see how cringed she was about the bit set up.
Well now I see she has a new coach, someone who is known to allow riders to move up too quick too, and so I am just sitting here thinking this is the exact scenario we are talking about when you should say something. But who will care if a nobody lower level eventer says something VS the riders coach who is an Olympian.
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Found this article from almost 4 years ago and my jaw dropped…it’s eerily similar to this thread. Why are things taking so long to change?
link: https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2016/02/…eventing-1993/
as a side note…Jealoushe- thanks for your support in the hunter thread. I have always loved eventing but have always been to scared to try it. I liked to follow Denny Emerson since he was from my region and I thought it was cool he did endurance with his event horses. I also did ride a couple times with Suzie Gornall on my OTTB doing flat work and I watched riders on her cross country course. Just never had the guts to try it with all the safety issues and this was 15-20 years ago.
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It seems like this would be exactly the kind of information that should go to a functional watch list regardless of the level of rider or non- rider reporting it. Face it- there are more “eyes” of lower level riders watching the general goings on and seeing the larger picture than UL ones. And lower level riders aren’t trying to prove anything or impress clients.
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I can’t seem to find the testing information available for the EXO vest, any help here?
Yes. One of the directors of the EXO BodyCage was Alasdair Kirk.
You can contact him through his website: https://alasdairkirk.com
A couple of interesting videos that are applicable to the discussion.
https://useventing.com/news-media/eventing-tv/having-and-instilling-rider-responsibility
https://useventing.com/news-media/eventing-tv/erqi-reports-for-officials-explained
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I think if you know this rider is a potential large risk you need to at the very least report her to the TD or organizer of the event.
If you can you could talk to her or her trainer. That part might suck. It might not work at all. I do think if you do talk directly to them you need to do it with empathy and no ego. My gut feeling is that if they wouldn’t listed to Ingrid freaking Klimke, they won’t listen to you.
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