No drainage ditches out there. If you watch the video you can see what happened to Cindy. Horses can’t gallop in thick, tall hay. It binds their legs. Hence why after Cindy we have always been warned NOT to go off mowed tracks under penalty.
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Why do you keep talking about parents?
The rider was in her 30s. An independent adult.
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No one ever speaks up. Like I said in my post…I don’t know what happened. If I thought we would get more details and therefore learn from what happened, there would be no need to speculate.
But we never get more details and therefore we can never learn. As a rider, I am trying to figure out what went wrong here so I can avoid making the same mistakes. Maybe it had nothing to do with the flaws I saw in the videos (yes, plural) and maybe it had nothing to do with the speed at which she was going. But I am trying to glean some kind of knowledge to help prevent it from happening to me.
We, the riders, deserve to know what happened. It’s entirely our business because it’s our decisions that lead to possible fatalities. We need to know so we can avoid making those same decisions.
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Here’s the statement from Equestrian Canada: https://www.equestrian.ca/news/WuoFmQrxd3NuQPzY7/canadian-rider-katharine-morel-horse
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I would want that information to come from someone who’s business is analyzing rider fatalities and who can look at the videos, results, speak to officials and trainers. Not from random people on the internet who watched some videos and made some assumptions about who’s spoken to the rider about what. That’s the only real way to see if anything would have prevented this. Right now we have a big list of maybes. Speed, straightness, hard long talks, frangible pins.
I think Jon Holling’s fundraiser is a great thing. Let’s see who donates.
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I’m actually totally in agreement with this. I do want that info to come from those experts. I want trained safety experts to come in and run an investigation. I want video of both this ride AND previous rides to be analyzed by top level riders. I want interviews with witnesses and her trainer. And I want an official, dispassionate report that lists the factors that led to this accident.
The problem is that we haven’t once seen any of this in previous incidents. If any investigation is taking place, the results are never released publicly. And they need to be.
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I 100% agree with this.
ETA I’m referring to the straightness, I dont know anything about the horse and rider. I dont recall seeing another incident where both horse and rider died, it must have been a horrific fall
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That was an honest question of mine. If the rider can’t keep the horse out of the canola, how the heck is she supposed to keep them both alive?
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But isnt something amiss when the penalty for this is death?
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I agree with this so completely. And if it’s ever me a thread like this is about, please, please release the details. All of them. Our sport is starved for information and no one makes good decisions without good information.
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That is my thought as well. If the line for making a mistake or even being bad at something is death something isn’t right.
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In both cases the riders deliberately rode their horses into the canola. It wasn’t some sort of drift. You can see in the video she had plenty of room to go other places but she aimed for the unmowed hay.
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At the upper levels - yes, being bad at it - is a recipe for death or a bad bad accident. That IS the risk. Sad but real.
I don’t weigh in often on these threads - and, my deepest sympathies for the rider’s family and friends.
We have a culture problem. Not so long a go, a rather well-known rider due to an internet presence, had a less than stellar ride. At first she was raked over the coals for her decisions. Then those who were criticizing her were called big meanies - and told they were awful for picking on her. We praise being bold and brave (?wild?)-then in the next sentence -criticize not riding safe enough. We all need to make sure, before heading out the start box - that we’ve checked all the boxes for being ready at a given level. No rules will make this happen. [my own equi-rating -at one point w/ my horse - was prelim ready- that is laughable- even though we were “qualified”]
We, as riders, and our coaches are ultimately responsible for our own safety. I won’t speak to this rider’s safety or any other rider’s decision. We all have bad days and we all make mistakes - but we should all know full well that mistakes can be deadly - especially at the upper levels.
And - no - I’m not saying we should not keep working on safety or that we shouldn’t make things as absolutely safe as possible - at ALL. What I’m trying to say is that we all need to know the potential impact of mistakes. Yes- it is a deadly sport.in its current form.
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Funny. Part of my career is investigating how people were killed or maimed in accidents or product failures. I’ve written numerous legal opinions and testified at trial. I’ve investigated people killed in explosions, harmed by medical device failures, I’ve even been part of investigations of rocket failures. I have had extensive safety training in multiple hazardous environments, including radiation and have served on industrial safety investigation committees. You also have little concept of my additional qualifications or who I have or have not spoken to concerning this.
I will be honest. You exhibit the attitude that has crept into the sport and has made the idea of rider deaths acceptable rather than pushing for the hard questions.
You would know me from various USEA meetings on safety as well as being the PI on the Speed Study that came about to understand rider deaths in 1999 and on.
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This sounds like my exact life story. I stopped eventing almost 10 years ago. I had a saint of a horse that usually would jump everything and anything. Moved up to training, came to the water jump and we stalled, I whacked my head so hard on his neck, lost my irons. I have a photo somewhere, I was hanging on him neck. We jumped out of the water and I managed to pull up before the next jump which was a table. My trainer was upset that I didn’t carry on. I remember getting into the back seat of my parents car and puking and blacking out.
I stopped eventing. It took me two years to be competent enough to get around a 3’6 course and un learn horrible habits. I don’t think I knew what a pace or distance was
Deepest condolences. It’s always gut wrenching hearing about any rider/horse fatalities.
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I’m pretty much done updating the other thread because nothing ever changes.
No insight, no details, no investigation that we hear of. Then the usual posters telling us we are cruel for questioning things so quickly after someone’s death.
Im done caring about offending families . All of us who do this sport owe it to our families to explain to them the risk so they truly understand. Think of Brad from the KCMEL thread. Our friends and family deserve to know the risk of our chosen hobby.
This sport needs to be one where you CAN make a mistake and you don’t die.
Also, her vest is too small. The sides should touch, not be several inches wide. This in itself is a safety hazard, and goes against how the vests safety is designed. Why was this allowed? Are vests not checked.
My final comment is, why do even need tables? We don’t. Let’s make endurance and bravery the deciding factor in sport. We can do this with length of course and terrain and less dangerous fences. I’m pretty sure with all the smart passionate people in Eventing we can invent some better options that jumps that kill us.
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I really, honestly do agree that change is needed and that we can and should learn from every mistake- to preserve life. But surely we can do this without dragging a rider through the muck. We can still care about the families and friends. What I’m reacting to is not the sentiment that we can and should do better by our riders in the way of education and changing the culture so we can advocate for safety (by stepping in, or asking them what they were thinking, or yellow carding or whatever the case may be). I’m reacting to some of the vitriol and nasty comments and blame aimed directly at this rider- who was not so different from any of you I can assure you. She was kind, driven, full of life and joy for the sport, and love for her horse. Maybe she shouldn’t have been there- I don’t know. I really don’t. But pointing the finger, shrugging your shoulders and essentially saying she had it coming is not what this sport is about.
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Every year, the course designs make the jumps more difficult, the skill level higher.
Here is what I have observed:
Watching the eventing at the last Olympics I thought the only reason no one died was sheer luck and because those are some of the best riders and horses in the world.
At smaller events:
Riding in a misty rainy day- the footing between jumps is slick/ muddy. Just cantering on wet grass is slippery. I’ve seen my own horses come out of the stall after a rain, go to gallop on the pasture and slip head over heels on wet grass. Yet watching YouTube videos you see people riding over jumps in those same slick conditions at competition.
Having a mistake in a line of jumps… If you watch stadium jumping, you can see how easy it is to miss the distance and knock a rail on the second fence, and completely smash the 3rd fence.
This could have been a rotational fall but was not because the fence was designed to collapse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuY7_Fr_wAM
Jump to 1:05 on this video. Anyone else think maybe that fence is too dangerous? If the horse had made it over, that could be a rotational fall. I honestly think the horse is lucky he didn’t break his legs. There’s a 2nd wreck at that fence as well. Maybe they should lower the height of that fence for safety reasons?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D06HtLdQOtsy
I remember having a conversation with someone at my local showgrounds- they had a 2nd fatality and both were at the same fence. They had the fence removed. But maybe it should have been removed after the first accident? Or even before the first accident? If you watch the competition, you can sometimes pick out the fences that are particularly problematic.
You are always going to have riders that are reckless. You are always going to have a horse that gets overly excited and the rider loses control. You are going to have mistakes like wrong distances and plain bad luck. We know solid fences can cause rotational falls. We also have the technology to prevent some of these accidents. It seems pretty straightforward to me.
We should not be blaming the victim because that does nothing to improve the sport. It is easier to blame the victim then admit that this could happen to anyone. Get a group together and talk to the event organizers, especially if you have concerns about a particular fence being too difficult or dangerous. How hard would it be to hold a safety meeting at the event or after the event to discuss the course and what changes need to be considered?
No one wants to die or have their horse die or be crippled by injury. We must insist on change.
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Our sport, and many other horse sports, need to pay constant attention to safety for our horses’ sakes, our riders’ sakes, and for the sake of the sports themselves, and even equestrianism of all kinds.
Our sport needs to continuously work to become safer, and some progress has clearly been made. While I sincerely believe there are many within the sport and its governing bodies, who are devoutly interested in improving safety, tand think about improvements every day, there are others who are less so. Certainly abandoning the idea of collapsable tables due to cost (if that is what happened) is short sighted. There are many, many, ways to go about raising the money to provide organizers with the funds required for safety upgrades. We need to do more of this. We would not have trouble at all crowdsourcing these funds if they would bring Katharine Morel and Kerry On back to life. So we should be able to do this to raise the funds to prevent the next rider, and the the next horse after that.
I too watched the previous video. I am no expert, and many here are more qualified to make comprehensive statements of cause and effect. My one brief observation of the pair at Rebecca, besides the ill-advised jaunt into the canola, was that control was certainly an issue, especially early on course. Without going into whys and wherefores, I was not surprised in this case that the incident occurred early on course when the mare was probably fresh, rather than later when fatigue might have been more of a factor.
In mountain climbing, there is a very, very, very, long tradition of accident analysis we might do well to emulate. Published by the American Alpine Club as a supplement to their annual journal is, "Accidents in North American Mountaineering". The volume is filled with details and investigations of all serious, though not necessarily fatal, climbing accidents reported within North America. It is very interesting reading, and contains every element likely in accidents: poor planning, bad weather, sheer bad luck, attempting something beyond ones skill level, equipment failure, you name it. Similarly the NTSB publishes reports on all significant aviation incidents and accidents. In both cases these are public reports, and are investigated in minute detail and that detail is reported and available to the public. They can be very instructive and useful in helping to prevent future accidents.
It may be time to adopt a similar system in horse sport. In both of the systems above, completeness and accuracy never plays a backseat roll, just to avoiding hurting someones feelings. They are almost brutally honest. Do you want to know every minute detail of how and why John Denver died in his plane? Google it. It is very sad, but oh so informative. (Know your aircraft.) There are some problems for implementation of this in our sport; funding, having the trained personnel, etc. But at least a good start can be made if only we give it the priority it deserves.
My heart goes out to all of the connections of Katharine Morel and Kerry On, both past and present.
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I am so tired of this happening. Something needs to be done. I know you can’t prevent TBI, but surely they can make a more durable helmet or something like that.
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