Another saddle fit question

[winry10203]

So, I posted earlier about a portos 28cm NT. Didn’t really like after a few rides. I do have another portos S 28 that I actually like. However without rear shims it sits cantle low… my question is how bad is it to use rear shims? the likely hood of finding a used saddle that has a deep enough rear gusset is slim to none at this point. how does the saddle look in motion? my thought process is, my current saddle a CWD does not fit him well. This one is a step in the right direction although not perfect. should I settle for this or just keep using my CWD and keep trying to find used?

Portos ride

[fivestrideline]

Obligatory Not A Fitter.

I don’t love the sweat marks in the last pic - that can be a sign that the front of the tree is being driven down into him, which is common when you shim the back. The sweat marks alone aren’t a deal breaker, but those + saddle tipped back + rear shims = time to take a closer look. Can you slide this saddle back at all or is that where it wants to sit when ungirthed and you push on the pommel?

I don’t think the rear/rear gussets are your problem. I think it’s the front of the saddle that needs to clear that wither and the rest of him is pretty normal. Does this saddle have any sort of K panel or drop panel in front?

My opinion is worth what you paid, but your horse doesn’t look that abnormal. He looks like he’s a typical curvy TB type, maybe lacking topline and has been ridden with a dropped back (common with an ill-fitting saddle, which you say your current CWD is). IME you can see some temporary improvement when you go from one “poor” fit to a different “poor” fit, because the pressure points are different.

You may have stated this before but I’ve lost track - do you not have any independent fitters that can help you? If not, I’d seriously consider one of the virtual fitters that have been suggested before - I don’t think your horse is that weirdly shaped. An in-person appointment is great but I think you could have success virtually. It would save you some time, frustration, and money, I think.

[winry10203]

Thanks for the feedback! my Stubben rep thinks it looks good with a rear shim although she hasn’t seen the saddle in person ( she’s not local unfortunately).
I have used a virtual fitter but haven’t found a saddle yet that has fit. She recommended me to try amerigo DJ or Vega, and prestige Paris but I haven’t found any local trials. Sounds like I should probably send this back… ugh im so desperate to find a saddle that works it’s clouding my judgement. Everything I’ve tried hasn’t worked.

[Posting_Trot]

I am also not a fitter.

My two cents: I don’t love the use of rear shims for exactly the reason that last poster gave–it tend just to jam the front of the saddle down onto the shoulders and is more likely to pinch the horse in a very sensitive place. The sweat pattern seems to validate that point of view–dry spots often result in places where the saddle is too tight.

One other issue I’ll raise. If your horse is currently lacking topline (as it appears), then a saddle that pinches now is only going to get worse as the horse builds muscle with consistent work. Or, worst case scenario, the pinching tree will make the horse consistently backsore.

I’d keep looking.

[fivestrideline]

@Amberley

something like a Tad Coffin, Amerigo, Pessoa or Beval

YMMV, but I’ll just say that my experience with TC and Pessoa are that they are very flat. I have two flat backed horses, and incidentally both of these brands. However, the TC does have this weird talent for fitting more horses than you’d think it could.

I’ve been told a Beval and Amerigo might fit the same horses, but they may have different trees to fit different shapes. Just wanted to toss that out there.

I do agree that this horse will hopefully change to a less extreme dip, but only with a well fitting saddle and proper work. He will likely always be curvy, but maybe less so and a bit less of a dip behind the withers.

[winry10203]

He goes inverted majority of the time. This is our biggest struggle. can you explain why he would need a wider saddle? What I was told about my current saddle is that it is too wide, so it digs in at the top. I was looking at the amerigo CC looks like it could possibly work, just unsure if it would have enough wither clearance. if it was another post about a stubben then yes it was me

[LazyA1]

I jave multiple riding horses and over the years have fitted lots of horses! My fitter and I always land on one for a particular horse, and often it’s my TC. Yes, the TC is flat but it’s the one that has fit the most. In my opinion, his flex tree makes it ok to have some bridging.

[fivestrideline]

OP - not to confuse you further, but it looks like you need “wider” as in a more U shaped head plate that is wide enough for his shoulders but will still clear the withers. A frame trees that are wider at the bottom will just sit down on his withers like your CWD. Stubben has a more open head plate generally, but these don’t seem to be fitting him very well.

Some saddle manufacturers accomplish this with the long points and drop/K panel I keep asking about .

@winry10203

She recommended me to try amerigo DJ or Vega, and prestige Paris

I would agree. The right Amerigo or Prestige or maybe a TC (not the A5).

[wanderlust]

@Posting_Trot

One other issue I’ll raise. If your horse is currently lacking topline (as it appears), then a saddle that pinches now is only going to get worse as the horse builds muscle with consistent work. Or, worst case scenario, the pinching tree will make the horse consistently backsore.

This depends entirely on why the saddle is pinching. Too narrow, yes. Too wide and sitting low, depends on the shape and angle of the tree but could just need padding until the horse puts on more topline.

[Chestnut24]

For those who think the saddle is pinching, is that based on the photos or the way the horse is going? To me (not a saddle fitter) the video gives a good impression - the horse seems free in his shoulder movement (cute horse by the way!) and the rider looks well balanced… after circa 1:13 he is starting to stretch down… With a bit more consistent contact he might get rounder. If he is usually going ‘inverted’ (does this mean with his head up?) this could be an improvement.