Sorry this is a bit long but you need the back story. I’ve ridden in Schleese Obrigados for a few years. Went to them because the Custom Wolfgang Solo put me in a bit of a chair seat. Horse and I both loved the more forward balanced, centered and upright way it set me on the horse. Now I have two new horses. Had saddle made for one and another fit to the other. Both PREs.
Turns out neither horse likes the way the Obrigado puts my weight. They both prefer a more “pushing” seat, (one because of prior training, the other is just lazier and built more warmblood”ish”. ).
Their opinions are strong! Remember, both saddles were fit to each horse by the local Schleese rep who I have worked with many times over the years.
So I dusted off the Custom one day and “TaDaaa!”all the resistances went away. (Mind you , this saddle was not fit to either one (although it “fits”) and both are going in the same saddle).
Just like their opinion, their approval was strong!
So:
Do I look for another Wolfgang since they aren’t made any more? Is there another saddle with a similar balance?
I know lots here annd anr my barn are singing the praises of the Erreplus…. Never sat in one. What is it like?
Thanks!!
I love Erreplus. The one rep I have semi-local just never gets back to me for an appointment and it’s been impossible to buy a saddle from her. I’d definitely sit in some and see what you think. They’ll be a different feel from Custom and Schleese, but they’re worth a try to see if you and your horses get on with them. I’d own one if I had a good rep/fitter.
I just got another saddle for my PRE today, actually. This is number 4 and he’s only been under saddle a year. We ended up with an Aviar Rook 2.5 because he was so noticeably different in them. They go against everything I believe in saddle wise, but hey, when it works, it works. So it’s not a bad idea to try something new.
I sat in probably 6 Custom saddles today too, and didn’t like the seat on a single one of them, which surprised me. There’s definitely some that threw me in the back seat.
What makes them “go against” what you believe? I am not familiar with them.
Foam panels, I prefer wool.
Flexible tree, I prefer traditional wood tree.
Giant thigh blocks in most of them, which usually I don’t love.
Snapped and screwed together in some parts vs sewn (panels). Easier to change panels though.
Just a very non traditional saddle to me.
I do think some are available with wool panels though.
Not all horses like these saddles but I’ve also seen horses object to well fitting saddles of other brands too.
There was a noticeable difference between the Aviar and the other Custom saddles we tried. Even the ones that fit him nicely. He just moved better and more consistently. I think between his preference for the Aviar and the Stubben Equisoft girth, he likes less rigid tack. I’m curious to see how this goes long term.
I have an obrigado. Are you sure the rep is adjusting it and fleecing it correctly? I’d get an independent saddle fitter out to find out WHY the fitted Scheeses aren’t working for your horses and the old Wolfgang is. I’d get data on what the difference is in the saddle fit and go from there. I’d want to understand the facts and use those facts to investigate new saddles. Good luck!
Well, I’ve worked with her for a few horses over a few years. They certainly seem to fit.
I’ve talked to the fitter who works on other boarders’ horses. She is now an Erreplus rep but will work on others. I also have an appointment to talk to the saddle expert at our local consignment shop (who is wonderfully educated!).
Yes. The way horses change through training I’m not really comfortable with foam panels either.
I’ve got an Erreplus. I absolutely love it. The blocks are adjustable, so I can have my thighs straighter or a little more forward, depending.
For a PRE, I have known County saddles to work well also.
Same. So we’ll see how it works out. Panels can easily be changed out on the Aviar saddles though. So I felt very slightly better about it.
Then again, wool panels aren’t infinitely adjustable, and I think sometimes people give them exaggerated praise and have high expectations on the adjustability. More adjustable than foam by far, don’t get me wrong, and they’re my preference too.
I’d give the Erreplus a try for sure! I’m so envious of those that have access to a good rep!
I just went down the saddle rabbit hole for my PRE. My last PRE went in the N2 Cardhu. I just demoed Aviars. My horse liked it, but I didn’t as much. It felt hard to me even though it was new, and I didn’t feel as secure as in my N2. I got the N2 rep out who ref locked my saddle because my Boy is changing rapidly. Voila! I’m in heaven again! Someone told me my N2 was too long for my guy which started this whole exploration. Both the Custom Rep and the N2 rep said my saddle was not too long, and it’s where the tree ends in the saddle that matters. My horse is never sore in the back, and works well, so I’m not messing with what works! Plus, new saddles due to the tariffs are starting at $7k which I’m just not interested in.
I’ve been curious about N2 but I’ve never seen one “in real life” and don’t have any reps nearby. I will say that the Aviar doesn’t have the most comfortable seat but for everyday riding, it’s not bad. For longer rides or on trails, I will just put my sheepskin seatsaver on. I’ve had to do this with other dressage saddles. Ideally, I’ll find something else to hack in eventually.
The Aviar is borderline too secure for me! But I’m rather minimalist in taste I guess.
FWIW I’ve had saddles that were a smidge too long on my PRE’s before and they’ve done just fine. Especially because the “too long part” wasn’t hugely weight bearing. I had one horse more comfortable in something a bit too long vs shorter panels. So if the horse is fine with it, I’m fine with it. They don’t read the book on saddle fitting, so I’m slightly flexible with some aspects of it.
My PRE absolutely loves the Aviar, and so does my now mostly retired smallish Hanoverian - it goes against everything I believe in, but I ride them both in the same saddle because it works so well for both of them. I find it fairly uncomfortable - hard as a rock really lol! - but it puts me in a good position, so I’ve tried every brand of padded riding underwear out there and learned to live with it. It does get better as it warms up - it’s worst when cold. I think it’s not particularly high quality for the price. But I’m happy I bought it because neither has had any back pain or saddle issues in the almost three years I’ve used it.
@CanteringCarrot is this for the same horse that had an Amerigo Pasubio? The thread was a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned I recently bought one for my curvy, short-backed Andalusian ginormous shoulders and she hated it, her shoulders got sore. I’m back to saddle hunting and I’m curious about the flexible tree on the Aviar tree. Do you think it’s the flexibility in the tree that he likes?
There’s an Aviar at a local consignment shop that I was thinking of trying for the flexible tree. My horse trialed an Envy a couple of years ago and really loved it (I hated it). I swear the Custom rep told me Aviar and Envy use the same flexible tree. I’m desperate at this point, this will be saddle #7 in 11 years.
Yes. According to the Custom rep I use for fittings - it is the same tree in the Envy and Aviar. Try the Aviar. You and your horse might like it. The trainer I use tried both and ended up with the Aviar. He did not like the Envy at all. The seat on my Aviar is not cushy but I really don’t mind it. My horses go well in them. They are both warmbloods.
Yes, the same horse that had a Pasubio. I don’t know what he likes about the Aviar exactly. The tree points are very short, the tree is flexible in some way, and the panels are foam. Which are all things that make me cringe 
He might prefer the wide channel, close contact feel, foam vs. wool, or a more non traditional tree. I don’t know. I’m curious about what he/his body says long term. He didn’t go as well in the Customs as he did in the Aviars.
The Pasubio was a tad too narrow in the channel/gullet, and too tight behind his withers. It’s awesome that the fitter that I had fitting that saddle saw exactly none of that 
I thought that something wasn’t right, and went with a different fitter.
I didn’t like the Aviar when I first sat in it, but once I figured out where/how to sit in it, I was fine. I tried two and the change in thigh block helped. I also went with an 18" and I’ve always fitted into 17.5" with a bit of room to spare. The 18" isn’t too long on my shorter backed horse.
However, he still has the same issues that he seems to have with all saddles in that our saddle pads slide back. I’m starting to think this is a him thing? Seeing as this has happened in saddles I’ve owned and had on trial, so well over a dozen.
7 saddles in 11 years isn’t bad and I’ll probably “beat” that at this rate. This horse has been under saddle for 1 whole year and we’ve had 5 saddles. Some new and some used.
The fitter that I used said horses either love or hate the Aviar and you’ll know pretty quickly how they feel. I initially didn’t care for it, but I feel really good in it after a few rides. I probably just needed to “recalibrate” myself a bit.
Ugh, same here! I had an independent fitter evaluate and flock the Pasubio before I bought it and she thought it fit her really well. The last time I went through saddle fitting for this horse I had 4 different fitters evaluate her (2 distance, 2 in-person) and a lot of the advice was conflicting. It’s so frustrating.
I am beyond frustrated with saddle fitters. I had a really good one when I lived overseas, and also when I lived in the NE. Where I live now has been something else! I’ve even thought about posting a thread on it, but decided not to rant on about it
Selling someone a saddle, whether it’s $2k or $8k that doesn’t fit and will only cause harm (short term and/or long term) just makes me go WTF. I get that there are variables, some things are subjective, and that there are different schools of thought, but still.
Sometimes even getting one to return your call/message is a struggle. Which, I get that they’re busy, but just ghosting people is rude. I think as a one horse owner and only dressage rider at the barn (but I am willing to haul somewhere), I’m just not worth their time.
I don’t even know that it’s that, it’s just that half of them don’t seem to be worth their salt in any sense. I get exactly opposite advice from multiple fitters and some are just plain rude. I’m really tired of paying people who are rude to me so I try not to and it’s damn difficult in horses.
I have a local fitter some people seem to like but she is awful to work with: I was riding in a shared small indoor with one of her clients once and she started yelling at me for being in there and messing up her fitting, will belittle you if you’re not riding in “the right” saddle, will refuse to listen to me about how a saddle fits ME (I have hip problems so I’m picky).
I loved sitting in an Erreplus but our rep is awful. Told me my horse rounds her back too much and I had too much contact (she’s a hunter). Will deride you for having the wrong half pad (I have a Mattes which is basically the same as the Erreplus branded one)
Stubben: had the rep try to sell me a medium narrow on a mare most others have down as a wide. My mare is close to mutton withers and “the long tree points would work for her too”. I could actually see daylight due to bridging and she called it “close enough”
I have a friend with admittedly a giraffe of a horse and a French rep put 3.5 cm of shims (yes) and called it a day and told her you know that she has to go “custom” (I hate how many people are calling saddles “custom” these days when they are just an assembly of stock parts) and yeah it’ll be $8k and you’ll never ever find another saddle that fits thank you.
I had plans to work with a remote fitter but Miss Mare became lame so I’m waiting to try to resume that… otherwise I’m in fitting hell
That’s not totally dissimilar to my experiences when I’ve been able to actually get ahold of and use a fitter.
I try not to express it, but I’ve also lost a great amount of trust in saddle fitters. I’ve been told that x saddle fits and have been sold saddles that shouldn’t have been sold to me or even recommended to me/that particular horse. I’ve done a lot of self educating. Which, yes, we should be somewhat educated on tack and fitting as riders, but I’m also willing to pay for a professional in the industry whom I should be able to trust and have good knowledge.
Just selling a saddle to sell a saddle also just seems poor in the long term, because if it’s not right or you’re pushing something on a customer, they’re not going to return to you for reflocking, adjustments, leather work, or for another saddle. You’re not going to get many referrals either.
Plus, when we buy a new saddle and have to resell shortly after due to fit issues, we (the customer) can lose hundreds to thousands. It’s so discouraging and defeating. We just want to do the best for our horse and ourselves as riders.
Not being able to return a text, message, or phone call is also incredibly off putting. Even if you don’t want or can’t fit me in as a client. Just say that. Don’t just ghost. Some do spend quite a lot of time online, but cannot return a simple message. Funny, that.
I will drop everything to accommodate a fitters schedule, meet/haul-in if needed, and be ready on time with my horse. I’ll recommended to others if the fitter is good, and continue to purchase from that fitter. I try my best to be the best customer that I can be.
I don’t want to and I’m not out to “bash all fitters” but it’s a concerning trend. There are some great fitters out there, and I hope that they’re truly appreciated. I have struggled to find one here. My previous fitter overseas was fantastic.
