Another saddle thread - has anyone tried the Envy saddles manufactured by Custom Saddlery?

[twostinkydogs]

I worked with a Custom Saddlery fitter yesterday who also reps Aviar and Envy. I think somehow Custom, Aviar, and Envy are all affiliated? There is not much information on their website - Envy Saddles I swear there was more information on it yesterday They are completely off-the-rack, no customization available, and are reasonably priced for a new saddle.

Is there anyone out there who has experience with them? Apparently the tree and rails (might be incorrect terminology) are all made from a single, flexible piece of some kind of material. My horse was very forward and seemed comfortable in it for one test ride. I am usually leery of newfangled saddle technology and am somewhat anti-Custom, but I am cautiously trialing it because my horse responded so well.

I will have an independent saddle fitter assess it, but I am curious if anyone is familiar with either of the Envy models. TIA!

[BEJ]

Do you know the price point? I tried looking, but couldn’t find one. Interesting concept.

[twostinkydogs]

I am trialing the Aurora - it’s $3495. I would say it’s comparable in quality to Custom’s Steffan’s Advantage. I just saw on the website they will be offering the saddle in a synthetic leather soon.

[Iused2]

Did you end up liking this saddle for your horse?

[twostinkydogs]

I ended up not buying it because the panels were not upswept enough for my horse. Even though she loved it, I was afraid it wouldn’t work for her in the long term and that I wouldn’t be able to resell it because the saddles are not well known. My guess is most horses will either love them or hate them because they do ride differently, but it’s definitely worth a trial.

[Runswithhorses1]

I think you dodged a bullet. I bought an Aviar.

[outerbanks77]

@Runswithhorses1

bought an Aviar.

Are you unhappy with your Aviar? I might be meeting with a rep this weekend, so any good or bad experiences would be good to hear about.

[Runswithhorses1]

More importantly, my horse is super unhappy with it. I initially purchased the Raavun, which exerted tremendous pressure at the back portion. I was sold a model that positively was a bad choice for him. It felt like it was shoving me up high in the rear, which in turn shoved down into my horse’s lower thoracic. It caused actual swelling in his spine per the x-rays taken after he went lame in it in less than 3 months. The company has been generous at least and has allowed me to trade it for a different model, no refund, so I have to choose from this same line of saddle. I also switched reps. I tried several different saddles and my horse was fussy to the point of tossing his head in all of them. After about three saddles, we put his Horobin saddle in him that I bought since I was having so much trouble with the Aviar and the first rep I started with was dragging this out for MONTHS so I got desparate and bought another saddle. He began to settle down and relax in the Horobin, which I will admit needs to be rebalanced as it has flocked panels and the flocking is new and extremely soft. Regardless, we continued on to another Aviar model and he went right back to running through the trot and throwing his head. In the end I put the Horobin back on him and he started to settle down again. My horse has spoken. So I did take home a new saddle because otherwise I would be empty handed after a large purchase. I got curious when I got home and sat it on his bare back, no pad and can now see why he got so angry. The panels contact down the spine channel side, but then are too flat from side to side and stick out off the sides of his back causing too much pressure along that inner edge. So now I have a very, very expensive saddle that I will not use on him. It was even worse on my second horse.

The saddle is supposedly more free in the shoulder because of how the tree is built in the front with very short points that are not really points. On my horse, once the saddle is girthed up, the panels still clamp down tight behind his shoulder blades. Now, my horse has enormous shoulders and is not quite as wide behind them, so saddles do tend to cause him problems in the shoulders. I had the same experience with the saddles I tried during my saddle replacement fitting as I had with the first one I purchased, he would not move out in the front because those foam panels were restricting him. He was short striding considerably. That went away when I put my Horobin back on him.

That is not to say you might have an entirely different experience. My horse has been a difficult fit and several brands have failed. This is just my own experience. I have heard that they are a better fit for warmbloods. I have an Arabian. The foam panels just do not match him and that cannot be fixed.

I do want to emphasize, the company has been very helpful in trying to find a fair solution.

[outerbanks77]

Thank you! This helps confirm with me that I’ll only go with one of I can buy a used one and have it adjusted to fit. At least then I won’t be out at much if it doesn’t work. I will keep my Black Country, which is a decent fit as a backup. My instructor said she knows some people with Aviars and the fit is tricky, but the horses do great when it’s dialed in. I do have a 17h warmblood, so she’s in their target demographic.

[NaturallyHappy]

@Runswithhorses1, If I were you, unless you paid cash, I’d dispute this w my credit card company.

[Runswithhorses1]

Unfortunately it is too late for that. The first rep is actually an independent fitter who sells this brand. She strung this out for months so I finally had enough and went directly to the company. They took back the first saddle and gave me a credit of its original value but minus whatever amount the dealer made on top of that. Of course the saddles went up since the initial purchase and I had to pay the difference. It was either that or be stuck trying to sell a model that seems to have been a problem for others and not likely to sell ever. I’m going to lose either way but at least have something sellable now.

[RevelRanchUT]

Ok, this is an older thread that I found bc I too was looking up Envy saddles.

Let me say this: I have had incredible experiences with Aviar. Like, horses moving better/more freely, rider position more naturally in the right alignment. I have been slowly putting them on every horse that I can, as we are able in my training program.

For me, the piece de resistance was a horse who came from Portugal with a *bad tongue problem. We rode him in a Custom Icon Star that was fitted to him, did *all the things: dental work (duh,) massage work, eastern medicine, western medicine, all the bits on gods green earth… and the Aviar changed it. It made it 75% easier to put the tongue back in his mouth. Such a relief.

I do think we have a good fitter/rep in this area (shout out, Powers Equine/Jenny for the help!) but also, I understand anatomy, have been in this sport longer than I care to admit, now, so I think we have a good decision-making matrix in place.

I now have a client who’s a little more challenged by the Aviar premium pricetag, so that’s why we’re looking at the Envy. Would be great to get her something that’s allows the freedom & structural advantages of the Aviar without the larger investment. Guess we’ll see!

[arabiansrock]

Well I bit the bullet and took an Aviar on trial yesterday. I bought into the pony thing and bought a 13.3 hand Haflinger gelding. I did take note of the wide flat short back and no withers, but silly me remembered that my saddle fitter said my Gemini could be adjusted to fit almost any horse. Yep, any horse except the one I bought. She said straight up that no custom would fit him. So we tried an Envy and the Aviar Rook 3. The Envy uses the same tree as the Aviar, but the panels and seat are different. The panels were very deep and the saddle just looked “perched” up on top of my boy. My trainer got on and tried it, and I could tell just watching that it would not work for me, it was tilting my trainer forward. So we tried the Aviar Rook 3. That thing fit my boy like a glove. No rolling, no slipping, very secure, he had no objections. I was gagging over the price (still am), but figured I can at least ride a ton during the trial and see if it seems worth it. I found the seat to be more than adequately cushy, and I liked the position it put me in. Only thing I don’t like is the price tag, lol.

[CanteringCarrot]

There are used Rooks out there, so you could consider going that route, but if what you have fits and the pony likes it, I’d just buy that one.

I have an Aviar Rook 2.5 for my wider built horse and it’s very stable and wide for him. I’ve heard if someone else finding an Aviar to be suitable on their wider built large pony too.

The seat isn’t the most comfortable I’ve sat in, but it’s not terrible. I was able to get a used one that my fitter/rep had that’s in excellent condition. It is nice that Aviar/Custom offer a decent trial period.

[arabiansrock]

ONe thing that weighed into my decision to try the Aviar is that the tree in the Aviar is at least 2 inches shorter than the standard tree in the Customs. And I can still have an 18 in seat on a shorter tree. The tree was completely inside of his T 18 rib. So then yesterday my trainer called and said “guess what , your boy is sore on all 4 after his Trim on Tuesday”. Just ugh, so I called my fitter and asked if we could move the triall dates out a bit and she was like “I need the saddle back, I can’t leave it out that long…” She;s letting me keep it until Fri so will see if he is getting better, farrier is supposed to come check him out.,

[CanteringCarrot]

Ugh, sorry to hear that!

I usually ride in a 17.5" seat but I did buy a 18" Rook. It’s got a small footprint while still distributing weight well. My horse isn’t long in the back, but the 18" is fine on him. It wouldn’t be in some other brands. The 17.5" would’ve likely been ok, but I like my saddles a smidge roomy, I think.

I was/am nervous about it because it’s not a very traditional saddle in design and materials, but if the horse likes it, then what the heck. I’ve been religiously checking his back too.

Can you pay to extend the trial? I know it sucks, but I get the fitter needing it back if it’s a popular model and Aviar/Custom might be strict about it? I did pay to lengthen a trial before (a different brand of saddle though). Sure it cost me, but the reassurance and extra time was worth it.

[arabiansrock]

well fitter is REALLY pushing me to get saddle back she “has a customer willing to buy it sight unseen without a trial”. So she wants me to give back the one I have on trial and she will “order me another one”. Well who knows when it will get here. And in the meantime I don’t have anything that fits at all decently to ride in. There was a reason I called her as soon as I got the horse home to set up an appt for a fitting. So I don’t have warm fuzzies about that at all. Have only been able to ride twice in the saddle and once was only at a walk. I do like it, but like cantering carrot I am concerned about the unproven new technology. The saddle is very comfortable to me (I don’t find the seat hard), and pony boy seems to like it, as much as I can tell from walking only. I am just scared of the price tag and possibly ending up with a saddle worth a fraction of what I pay for it if he doesn’t like it. The envy’s are half the price but the leather is not nearly as nice, and the panels are not at all close contact. If I had a high wither horse, I would def consider them, but not for mr wide load. The farrier put shoes on his front feet yesterday so hopefully he will be feeling better by next week and ready to work.

Honestly I’m just afraid if I get mad over this, I will end up being stuck in saddle fit h^&l shipping saddles back and forth and guessing if they fit or not. This one at least seems to fit him like a glove and it doesn’t roll, which in and of itself seems miraculous with his build. Although I just realized the fitter never even did a wither tracing on him. Should I be feeling like she is being very “quick” to decide it fits? The saddle is set to mw from the factory and she says it fits “perfect”. When I questioned that she said the tree is so different from standard trees that they don’t fit to the same measurement that regular trees do.

At this point I told her to just take hers and sell it to the “ready to buy” person and find another one for me. So who knows when she will get one to me. When I do get one, I will come back and update review with thoughts after getting to ride in it more.

[dmveventer]

I’d also be annoyed at the flack of flexibility for a horse that went lame during the trial, but I don’t blame the fitter for wanting to go with the sure sale if you’re still on the fence. Can you start looking for a saddle with the same specs on the consignment sites? That might solve your waiting problem and your budget problem.

@arabiansrock

This one at least seems to fit him like a glove and it doesn’t roll, which in and of itself seems miraculous with his build. Although I just realized the fitter never even did a wither tracing on him. Should I be feeling like she is being very “quick” to decide it fits? The saddle is set to mw from the factory and she says it fits “perfect”. When I questioned that she said the tree is so different from standard trees that they don’t fit to the same measurement that regular trees do.

Wither tracings really aren’t necessary if you’re having in-person fittings (assuming your fitter is competent, of course). Watching the saddle in motion and getting their hands on your horse to see how things are sitting is actually much better. It’s also pretty normal for brands to have different definitions of “medium wide” etc. You say the saddle fits like a glove so I wouldn’t be worried about any of these things, but getting a second opinion from another fitter is never a bad idea if you’re skeptical.

[twostinkydogs]

Is the fitter a Custom/Aviar/Envy rep? I’m curious because I had a similar experience. No wither tracing, no explanation of why any particular model fit, pressure to buy. The rep was also working with anywhere from 3-5 people at the same time, so there was not much individual attention. I had never had a saddle fitter do that before. I ended up with the exact same model saddle on both of my horses, and their backs are nothing alike. One is flat, the other curvy. One has withers, the other doesn’t. I didn’t feel good at all about the entire process, but I was exhausted and feeling desperate for a solution, because like you, I didn’t have anything to ride in at the time. The fitter is also popular in my area so I swallowed my concerns. It’s been 2 years and I’m already saddle shopping again. I think you were right to pass on the saddle.

[arabiansrock]

Yes Aviar rep. only working with me but very fast. If I didn’t have my trainer with me to double check the fit for both horse and me, I would run. But trainer thinks it sits me quite nicely and says it fits horse like a glove. I have total confidence in my saddle fitting abilities while working on any horse but my own. I just can’t afford to make this expensive of a mistake. That is why I am insisting on getting my full 10 trial days. Fitter is getting another Rook 3 with the same blocks from another fitter, and when it gets here she promised me the full 10 days trial. Fingers crossed. I just don’t know when it will get here and what I am going to ride in until then.