Another TB Pedigree :)

Looking into purchasing this filly, with an eye on eventing, probably no higher than Prelim. Would love the opportunity to breed her farther down the line, too. What do you guys think about her lines, particularly as a potential eventer?

https://www.pedigreequery.com/fastinastorm

Oooh, she’s very pretty! It was a shame we lost her sire, Fast Anna, so early. I wanted to send a mare to him. He was a very good looking horse. I don’t have any firsthand experience with his offspring.

Medaglia D’Oro is probably the best looking stallion in Kentucky. I can’t recall any MDO offspring going in the upper levels of eventing off the top of my head (it’s Monday morning and I’m not yet done my coffee), but I’ve known a lot in the lower levels and they are very athletic.

But the bottom side of the pedigree has a lot of proven success with eventing. Also steeplechase racing, which tends to be a good analog for eventing success. Stormy Atlantic is one of the best SC sons for sport IMO… just a really nice, balanced horse with a lot of jump. I am pretty sure there are some upper level horses with him close up, but again, that Monday coffee hasn’t kicked in. Crafty Prospector shows up with above average frequency in upper level eventers. Current 5 star horses with him close up include Jess Phoenix’s Bogue Sound. And Broad Brush was probably one of the most influential TBs for sport in the late part of the 20th century…

So really, her paper is nothing but encouraging.

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I can’t speak to pedigree but her conformation screams “highly athletic with an excellent chance of staying sound for a long time”

Everything is as it should be. Front pasterns and cannons are maybe a touch long, but given that she’s just 4, she’ll put on a little more bone which will help. Her shoulder, legs well out in front of her withers, great hind end, good angles, it’s all as it should be for a sound, athletic horse.

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it appears that she has been intentionally inbred to the superior mare Kitten’s First, being 3X3 to her daughter Justenuffheart, a half sister to Kitten’s Joy. Using the Rasmussen Factor does yield success, but not always. Fastinastorm was clearly not a runner. But it truly is a fascinating pedigree!

handy reading links:
https://pedigreeconsultants.com/2013/09/28/complacent-about-the-rasmussen-factor/
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/http://lanternhillfarm.com/media/BHJanArticle.pdf

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Nice pedigree for sport. MDO & sons consistently make a nice type with great balance. Stormy Atlantic is one of my 2 “Storm Cat allowances”, he tends to make a big, nice mover with minimal SC quirks, and allows other pedigree influences to blend. The third dam, Justenuffheart, is a stellar producer: dam of Lewis Michael, Dreaming of Anna (dam of Fast Anna), and Justenuffhumor. It’s unusual to see a horse inbred 3x3 to a mare, particularly both from daughters. From a sport perspective, I think it works favorably here.

From a sport breeding perspective, it may mean you will have a very good idea what to expect from her-- I would study Justenuffheart and her sons’ offspring closely to identify the strongest, most consistent traits in that family, and make stallion choices accordingly. :slight_smile:

Sadlers Wells and Blushing Groom…bet that horse can jump AND run. Great combo, add in the Storm Cat. Whew, that one is going to be a good one.

Whats your other SC allowance? Any thoughts on Tabasco Cat?

My Storm Cat allowances are Stormy Atlantic and Hennessy, provided they have a desirable pedigree otherwise and a standout physical.

I know many people love Giant’s Causeway, and he does make a big, nice mover…but my own direct experiences with several, plus hearing respected, trusted racing professionals’ experiences (trainers, riders, chiros, vets), GC is on my Not Preferred list.

I probably wouldn’t touch a Tabasco Cat in the first 3 generations unless it had a number of other strong, sane influences. Athletic as hell, but definitely spicy and not known for good judgement.

Somehow I ended up with a handful of Storm Cat line racing broodmares on the farm this year, and it has driven home the notion that stereotypes are based in truth, lol. I have learned that 1 Storm Cat mare alone can be okay (most of the time), but get 2 or more in there together and the stupidity is exponentially worse. :laughing: We have mares by Lion Heart, Pure Prize, Storm Cat damsire, and the Stormy Atlantic mare is definitely the most sensible and normal. But when she is with her “kind”, she lets her crazy flag fly too.

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Not even a Harlan’s Holiday allowance?!? :joy:

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I knowww :sob: Or if not Harlan’s Holiday, what about Black Minnaloushe or Freud???

Mostly tongue in cheek… She does like Hennessy, and we all love Johannesburg for sport so she gets a pass :wink: :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Well Harlan’s Holiday was a grandson but it’s not like we had a lot of Harlan’s that lasted… Menifee for a bit…

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Honestly I’m not a big HH fan…he’s just OK to me. He will be around forever thanks to Into Mischief, who I personally put in a sireline of his own separate from Storm Cat (I don’t see much Storm Cat in them physically or mentally).

I admit I haven’t had as many dealings with Freud, not too many of them in KY/FL as the northeast. I know they are most always flashy and I’ve seen some nice hunter types, but again he isn’t one I seek out. Possibly because he is GC’s full brother and I have GC bias, I admit. I used to train an appendix QH out of a Freud mare, and she was quite pretty to look at, but not my type for sport.

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Ah, I’ve been looking on that FB page too and noticed her. I’m not a pedigree guru so not much to chime in from that aspect, but I do think she is beautifully put together.

Her status is “pick up pending” – did you end up getting her?? :smiley:

I saw a lot of Freuds and GCs living in NY. I like both for different reasons but do love a good Freud. You are right Freud is popular with the HJ crowd. The right Freud you wouldn’t be able to pick out from a WB in the HJ circuit.

It’s funny how some siblings are nearly identical, some couldn’t be more different. They are full siblings but I don’t think they put the same thing on the ground.

Freud gives a much better disposition IMHO. He also seems to make an unmistakable eye and head, I don’t always see this on GC offspring. When I see GC I see all Rahy in the neck, shoulder, and even a little in the back. When I look at Freud he is quintessential SC. GC seems to sire more uphill with better shoulder freedom in the trot. Freud seems to sire okay movers but great canters. I like GC better for dressage ability, but I like Freud better for jump. GC can sire giants that are long-lined and front heavy. Freud seems to make a more modern package.

In the WB studbooks, GC mares are very positively received. The right one is quite close to the old fashioned, long lined phenotype with a little more modernity in the legs.

Interesting. I haven’t seen as many Freuds but I go out of my way to look for GC. I’ve got two currently and one Stonesider (GC grandson) between myself and clients. They are giants, and mine can get front end heavy if he’s not fit. But I don’t think there is another line that consistently throws as good a jump. Storm Cat brings the jump but I feel like it comes out best in the GCs. None of them have much of a hunter trot though. All great canters.
I’m always suspicious of jump if there isn’t SC in the pedigree somewhere. But that’s a personal experience bias.

Stonesider was a lovely stallion. I worked with several of his offspring and they had the type one wants for dressage. I think he was an improvement over GC in terms of dressage/sport. Brilliant canters and great trots, uphill and big bone.

There are better sources of jump than SC. Bold Ruler, Damascus, Roberto and Hail To Reason are solidly proven for sport. Mill Reef, Hand In Glove, Private Account, Ituango, and Acatenango are other lines secured in UL pedigrees.

If you want more ‘modern’ (as in the last ~20 years or so) horses, Mizzen Mast, Kitten’s Joy, El Prado, Saddlers Wells, Smart Strike, AP Indy, Dynaformer, Gone West and/or Deputy Minister, Go For Gin are solid lines for sport. If you can find Animal Kingdom here, jump on it.

If you want current lines to look out for, I think Seville, English Channel, and Big Brown are promising for jumping ability and movement.

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@beowulf The Stonesider is a living saint. I forgot I had one by Causeway’s Kin too, that one is small but a nice type and good jumper too.
I guess my caveat is that it has to be both the jump and the type. Maybe that’s where I discount a lot of those stallions. Like I think Jessica Redman does a beautiful job sourcing these athletic pedigrees, but in reality it’s all eventing types and only once in a blue moon is there something I could get a hunter or jumper client interested in. I need it to be big and slow (not necessarily race slow, just slow tempo, and slow in the air).
I would murder for an Animal Kingdom though.
Thank you for the list too. I have overlooked Big Browns because he’s sort of a common looking type himself, and I need to be more open minded on that.
I love a good TB horse and I love to shop for them and promote them, but the pool of suitable ones for my disciplines is smaller than I would like.

That’s so interesting! My Tobasco Cat mare is simply the best thing since sliced bread. So chill and such a trier! All of mine are out together and they are all good mares! So funny how different are experiences are :joy:

“Chill” is definitely not the norm for Tabasco Cat offspring. Every Tabasco Cat I had was a nice type, but tiresome to deal with.

But that’s why pedigrees are only one piece of the puzzle.

And I totally agree it’s interesting how different experiences are.

When there were a lot of Storm Cat’s own sons and daughters on the ground, a lot of them could definitely be annoying to deal with. But personally, I haven’t seen a strong correlation with temperament problems in his grandkids. No more than any of the hotter lines.

The line I freaking hate (irrationally :joy:) is Halo. If I see Halo in the first 3 generations on the page, I don’t want the thing in my barn (not concerned about it in the subject horse) . Yet clearly my experience is not the norm. There are plenty of fabulous Halo-line horses, they just never end up with me! Everyone breeding to More than Ready would think I’m nuts, ha.

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I second no thank you re: Halo.

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