Antares with broken tree

[Badger]

I have two Antares jump saddles that I dearly love. They are very comfortable and fit me well. However, my 2006 saddle (which has been used but not abused, ridden exclusive by one ammy adult for fox hunting and eventing and jump schooling) now has a broken tree. The metal tree broke clean through at the center of the pommel.

In searching these forums, I see that I am not alone. There are quite a few COTHers that have discovered broken trees in their Antares. Some happened within the warranty and some outside it. These are high end saddles and there is no way that trees should be breaking from normal use, but that is what happened with mine and per posts, a number of others. (The Stuebbens I rode in for years NEVER let me down like this and cost a lot less to get into, but never fit me this well.)

I’m curious about the year and model of other broken Antares, wondering if it was a bad batch of trees from a certain production period or an ongoing problem. Because I now own a second Antares (same saddle but narrower tree for a different horse, have had it just over four months) and am hoping it’s not going to be suffering the same fate.

I’ve been playing phone tag with a rep but haven’t spoken to him to find out my options. This of course gave me time to start googling and has left me pretty alarmed. :eek:

I’ve had good experiences with their customer service over the years, but haven’t had a problem like this to resolve. Crossing fingers for some good options.

[KateKat]

My tree broke probably a year and a half into owning the saddle. It was purchased brand new by me in 2011 I think? Jump saddle. Don’t remember the specifics outside of it being a 2A flap, size 18 med deep seat.

The person I dealt with was great, super fast response and I was not out of pocket at all on the cost to repair or ship. Sent it to a place that Antares uses in southern CA so I had my saddle repaired in about a week. All in all I was without a saddle for probably a week and a half.

[Badger]

Thanks KateKat. Unfortunately mine is out of the warranty (purchased in 2007 per their records, I took it on trial from Rolex and ended up buying it). It was inspected by Antares reps in both 2012 and 2013 and deemed sound. I just spoke with Customer Service who offered to have the company replace the tree and seat cover for $1,750…which is not something I’m up for.

I’m exploring other options, including whether I can get a replacement tree and have a local repair done, weld the tree, or get a different saddle. I truly LOVE riding in the saddle, but after reading online I’m finding way too many stories like yours and mine to feel like investing in another Antares saddle or a lot of money in a new Antares tree. At the same time, I’ve been through saddle-search-HELL and I found my nirvana in Antares. I was told that the problem was not uncommon and can result from the stress on the tree when posting and jumping.

I had always thought that broken trees were the results of horses falling on trees, dropping saddles, trucks running over them, that sort of abuse. Had no idea that the normal wear and tear of posting was the issue. Learn something new every day.

I did a bit of reading here on the COTH, and though this list is not exhaustive (I didn’t go into all the threads the search cough up, just the most recent ones) I found 16 posters besides me that posted about broken trees in their own Antares saddles (I tried hard to be accurate but this has not been fact checked to NYT standards!).

MySuperExAlter
sport horse
indygirl2560
FineAlready
Jody jaffe
ReeseTheBeast
murph
EverAfter
bellboots
DraftHorsePower
InjuredAlter
TullyMars
KateKat
Kestrel
GrantanaKC
AlterHalter123

This list makes me leary about fixing my problem by spending too much money on yet another Antares tree.

The Customer Service rep told me that they get the trees from a French manufacturer that makes them for a bunch of saddlers. This makes me think that the same broken tree problems should be showing up in other French saddle brands. Anyone know if this is the case?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

normal wear and tear should NOT cause a tree to break. If that was true…there would be a lot of broken trees. That is a crap tree.

I have a Stackhouse that is over 10 years old…and well used. No broken tree. I’ve ridden in saddles that had to be over 30 years…no broken trees.

I have an Albion jump saddle (so a french saddle) that is probably from about 1995…and well used (ridden around a bunch of UL events). Its tree is just fine.

[Badger]

I agree, BFNE! Interestingly, a COTH search and a google search for Devoucoux broken tree didn’t spit out much of anything whereas the same search for Antares provides WAY too much reading.

If my understanding is correct that the buy trees from the same French manufacturer, I’m having trouble making it add up that they aren’t producing similar tree complaints. Very weird.

[KateKat]

well, if you have to foot the bill yourself I would say take it to a reputable saddle manufacturer and see if they can make you a new tree. I’m not sure how hard/costly that would be, but I also would be leary about getting it replaced with a french tree.

I do feel though that perhaps they have improved the manufacturing, since I have not seen much about broken trees from any manufacturer from 2013 on or so (or maybe people just aren’t talking about it as much)

[bornfreenowexpensive]

They are lovely looking saddles for sure. Maybe they will give you a significant discount on a new saddle.

[Badger]

Saddle repair shop said a replacement must be the exact same tree or nothing will fit. So a new tree will have to be an Antares/French tree.

Per Antares, no changes in the trees have been made, they are using the same trees all along, and these issues are not uncommon. He couldn’t speak to whether other manufacturers are seeing similar numbers.

[Jeannette_formerly_ponygyrl]

I wonder if there could be something about the panel shape/surface area which transmits more force upward ( and out) on the Antares. Def makes me want to compare Antares and Devoucoux panels!

[GutsNGlory]

No experience with Antares, but this thread on the H/J forums today about CWD saddles has a post stating a rep said the 2G saddle is not made for everyday type riding and will break down quickly if not used only for shows or occasional rides. Kind of thought that was interesting and I know CWD is another French type saddle maker (and at a price tag of $6500-7500 for the 2G you’d expect it to last a while…).

My current jump saddle is a wooden spring tree and about 35-40 years old. It still has PLENTY of life left in it (and I’ll never sell it). Truly good quality tack should last. Unfortunately it seems like a lot of modern tack (and leather) is of lesser and lesser quality (though there are definitely exceptions!).

FYI BFNE - Albion is actually an British saddle maker

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=GutsNGlory;7701448]

FYI BFNE - Albion is actually an British saddle maker ;)[/QUOTE]
lol. That explains it! ?I guess I just assumed they were French.

[GutsNGlory]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7701533]
lol. That explains it! ?I guess I just assumed they were French. :)[/QUOTE]

Haha I know - it’s the name! I’ve had several people assume the same when I’ve told them I ride in an Albion dressage saddle.

[Hej]

“Albion” is an ancient name for Great Britain.

(Just one of the bits of generally useless information that clutter up my brain and prevent me from remembering the stuff that’s important) !

[Hej]

Oops double post, sorry.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Hej;7702310]
“Albion” is an ancient name for Great Britain.

(Just one of the bits of generally useless information that clutter up my brain and prevent me from remembering the stuff that’s important) ![/QUOTE]

Love it…now it is cluttering up my brain!!!

[GutsNGlory]

[QUOTE=Hej;7702310]
“Albion” is an ancient name for Great Britain.

(Just one of the bits of generally useless information that clutter up my brain and prevent me from remembering the stuff that’s important) ![/QUOTE]

Very good to know! I love information like this. Generating random facts in the middle of conversations is one of my party tricks after all…

[jn4jenny]

[QUOTE=Badger;7700927]
I’m curious about the year and model of other broken Antares, wondering if it was a bad batch of trees from a certain production period or an ongoing problem. Because I now own a second Antares (same saddle but narrower tree for a different horse, have had it just over four months) and am hoping it’s not going to be suffering the same fate.[/QUOTE]

I can’t tell you for sure which years were affected, but I can tell you that by and large, the ones I hear about (here on COTH, through vendors who specialize in French used tack, and other folks who are variously “in the know” about the French saddle industry) are from the mid-2000’s. Most sources seem to agree that Antares had a bad batch of trees during this period, and that the trees were “bad” in such a way that you can’t easily identify them on sight or by doing traditional hand-tests to see if you’ve got a broken tree.

I have not managed to get anyone who would actually know what’s wrong with these trees to spill those beans. But a whole lot of user reports seem to relate to the steel pommel plate across the front of the tree. My guess–and this is 100% a guess based purely on how saddle owners are describing the way the breaks are happening and the ages of the saddles to which they happen–is that it was a bad batch of steel that caused small, undetectable hairline fractures in the interior of the steel head plates. That would explain why the breakages were especially rampant during a particular period of time, then the breakage rate slowed down.

Or it could be some kind of design/structural weakness in the Antares tree design. Or a combination of structural weakness and design flaws. Or something we haven’t even discussed yet on this thread. It’s hard to say without taking apart a bunch of Antares saddles and showing them to a team of saddlers and material engineers.

@Badger;7701089

The Customer Service rep told me that they get the trees from a French manufacturer that makes them for a bunch of saddlers. This makes me think that the same broken tree problems should be showing up in other French saddle brands. Anyone know if this is the case?

I doubt it. There’s only a handful of English tree manufacturers in the whole world. These tree manufacturers are take orders from lots of different saddlers, and they build trees based on the specifications set by each saddler. So just because a particular manufacturer builds an iffy set of trees for Antares, it doesn’t follow that all the tree manufacturer’s trees are going to be bad. Those other trees are being built to different specs, with different measurements and materials.

Antares seems to have a higher-than-average breakage rate compared to most high-end saddles. I am not aware of any other French brands that have a higher-than-average tree breakage rate.

@Badger;7701238

Saddle repair shop said a replacement must be the exact same tree or nothing will fit. So a new tree will have to be an Antares/French tree.

Yup. I feel for you because you can’t win either way. Either you don’t replace the tree and now you’ve got a useless saddle, or you replace the tree and your saddle is worth only a few hundred bucks more than the cost of tree/seat replacement. And although this is rare, I’ve heard of cases where the replaced tree just breaks again, and then you’re out a LOT of money.

[Bogie]

[QUOTE=GutsNGlory;7701448]
No experience with Antares, but this thread on the H/J forums today about CWD saddles has a post stating a rep said the 2G saddle is not made for everyday type riding and will break down quickly if not used only for shows or occasional rides. Kind of thought that was interesting and I know CWD is another French type saddle maker (and at a price tag of $6500-7500 for the 2G you’d expect it to last a while…).

My current jump saddle is a wooden spring tree and about 35-40 years old. It still has PLENTY of life left in it (and I’ll never sell it). Truly good quality tack should last. Unfortunately it seems like a lot of modern tack (and leather) is of lesser and lesser quality (though there are definitely exceptions!).

FYI BFNE - Albion is actually an British saddle maker ;)[/QUOTE]

Ouch!! I can’t imagine spending that kind of $$ on a saddle and finding out it didn’t last. I have a saddle that were made in the mid to late 70s that is still going strong. German brand. In fact, my County is probably pushing 10 and my Roosli is about 12. I have a couple of Kieffers that are in the 6-7 year range.

[Hej]

BornFree and Guts, you’re welcome!
(Both to the random bits of information and, on some days, to the brain that stores them. ‘Brain’? ‘Brain’? What is ‘brain’?)

[Badger]

Thanks so much, jn4jenny. That filled in some blanks.

The more I think about it, the more disappointed (and that’s mild for what I’m feeling) I am that a high end saddler feels this is acceptable. Durability is worth a lot in an item like this, not just comfort and fit, but durability. An expensive custom saddle should reasonable be expected to last as long as, or longer, than a lower-end, mass-produced saddle. You’d think! In using a jump saddle as it was intended, to post and to jump, in a relatively short life (for a saddle), it’s failed. And their solution is a high-mark-up repair, so not a “making it right” but a money-making opportunity.

Doing some math here: the company is 14 years old and sells (per their website) about 3,000 saddles a year. So that’s 42,000 sold total. At a ballpark average price of $4,500 each, that’s $189,000,000 in sales. And instead of saying “we charge a premium because we make a topnotch product that lasts” they say that trees breaking is “a common occurrence” and if it doesn’t happen in the first five guaranteed years, they will happily fix it for $1,750. That is for a new tree and new seat. My saddle’s seat is absolutely fine. It’s used, well loved, taken care of, and not abused. The seat is fine. A new tree I’m told should cost a saddler $150, maybe $200. Putting a whole new seat in at a repair shop is roughly $500. The other $1,000 is mark-up.

If Antares got a batch of bad trees, they should take care of the unlucky people who got stuck with them, make it right for their inconvenience and expense (did I mention the chiro bill I just paid for my horse today?)…not use it as an opportunity to make more money. What an unfortunate business model.

And to GutsNGlory, I can’t even begin to wrap my mind about a saddle marketed as so fragile that it can only be ridden in occasionally. And at that ungodly price. I’m just: DUH!