Any comments on used Poj-Kon Max wagonette vs. new Robert wagonette?

[system]

I’m looking for a carriage to use both with a single and with a team of 14h and 14.2h Norwegian Fjords. We show at local fairs (draft pony &/or open classes mainly), do an occasional parade, and, more than anything else, drive on the road or over fields for pleasure. Up until now, we’ve used a Frontier Easy Entry cart at home for single and our big old hay wagon (yes, the one that we use with the tractor but with a longer wooden tongue bolted on to the steel one and a straw bale tossed on for a driving bench) for the pair. For shows and parades, we’ve used a nice-looking (but somewhat rough riding) wood wagon that my uncle built for us with the team and my Long Reacher cart for single.

I need a single vehicle that will serve for most, if not all, of those purposes. It needs to seat a minimum of driver plus two passengers (room for up to four passengers would be a nice bonus but not necessarily essential) and to be comfortable for my parents (in their 70s) to ride along, even over reasonably rough ground. Heck, it needs to be comfortable for my poor osteo-arthritic hips and knees to ride in over that kind of ground. My Long Reacher actually is quite comfy for me on my own but on only two occasions have I ever had two people in it and had a smooth ride; on both occasions, it was the same person riding with me and I’m guessing that we both just did a better job of properly balancing ourselves in the cart than the average passenger can manage.

Something with pneumatic wheels seems to be the best bet for comfort. Yes, I realize that wood or steel tend to be more popular options and pneumatic isn’t acceptable for pleasure shows - for those rare occasions, I’ll keep the Long Reacher and stick to single or tandem if I need wood wheels.

I’m considering either a used Poj-Kon Max wagonette or a new Robert Carriages wagonette (or Cross-Country Buggy). The new Robert carriage (of either type) would cost less than the used Poj-Kon Max, even with shipping added on (particularly since they have a fall sale on).

Yes, I am aware that there are wildly mixed opinions of the quality of Robert carriages but (1) I know several people with Robert carriages that they are extremely satisfied with (even after several years of heavy usage) and (2) they do have a one year warranty so I would have some recourse if I was among those who land a “lemon”.

At the moment, I’m strongly leaning towards a new Robert carriage. It’s less expensive (still not cheap, mind you) and it’s new, with a nice, new paint job.

The Poj-Kon is used (estimated at least four to six years old, with a reasonable amount of usage), has a certain amount of surface rust, and definitely needs some paint touch-ups. Of equal importance is the fact that I quite simply can’t seem to find any comments online from Poj-Kon owners, period, let alone owners of a Poj-Kon Max wagonette. Just because it’s a Polish import, that doesn’t necessarily guarantee that it’s any better than a Robert carriage - Robert Carriages do a brisk international export business, after all.

So, if there’s anyone out there who has any experience with Poj-Kon carriages - please, speak up! I actually like it’s overall “look” a bit better than the Robert - just not enough to justify spending more for used than for new, in the absence of any evidence that it would really be a better choice.

[horsegeeks]

What did you decide? I’d heard that the Roberts carriage were not all that good. But like you, I’ve talked to people who swear by them.

We’re considering getting something to allow us to take friends and family driving with us … without taking out a second mortgage. So we’d be very interested in your decision

[goodhors]

Not sure how she much she has used it this year, but she bought the Max wagonette last fall. Sorry, I don’t have another Max to sell!

I am among those who do not recommend the Roberts vehicles. Have seen too many problems over the years with them. Vehicle failures. Warrenty is not helpful AFTER a wreck and you fry your horse or get hurt. They always dump a bunch, all styles of new ones at the northern Carriage Auctions, if you really want a Roberts one.

Bob Cook in North Carolina had a good selection of vehicles to sell, new and used, when we visited him on our vacation.

http://www.horsecarriages.com/index.asp

Not sure what you want to pay, his were pretty nice, various styles including wagonettes for all size animals. Prices are all over, depending on quality you want. The air filled tires do add to the price, but are a good ride.

There are vehicles all over, people are always buying and selling stuff. Wagonette is a good choice for taking friends along, easy to enter from the back, has 4 wheels for a better ride.

I have an antique Wagonette that I like better than I did the Max. We have 2 modern type, metal vehicles that go to a single horse or Pair, didn’t need a 3rd modern vehicle, in the same bodystyle as one of the antiques. So the Max got sold on. Nothing wrong with it, just like the others better for OUR uses. Though husband STILL makes muttered comments about missing the air-filled tire ride! Other folks might have kept the Max, sold a different one if it was their carriages.

I LOVE having more room in the Carriage shed, lots easier now to move things about. We have done a number of things to make it easier to work out of, with the extra space. Want to come see my carriage pole collection?

[horsegeeks]

THANKS for your comments. We’ll be looking at the Roberts and seeing if we can judge its quality.

Unfortunately, I don’t know much about what manufactures to rely on … and have to ask a LOT of questions.

THANKS again!

[goodhors]

Well even just VISITING to see Bob Cook’s vehicles, could help train your eyes as to weld finishes, fitting of parts, heaviness of metal tubing or not, so you develop better skills at judging quality assembly. Learning good proportions, how things are measured to go together well, is only done by looking at well-made, QUANTITIES of vehicles.

So it is “the more you look at good stuff, the better you are at detecting poor or lesser quality”.

Bob is right there in NC, though maybe not real close. I was surprised at the quantity and variety of things he had on hand. You don’t need WEG quality stuff, though he has it there! But after seeing the VERY GOOD makes, you learn and can make better choices in looking at other makes and models that are not created for such hard competitions.

We were lucky enough to be able to attend a lot of Martin Auctions in the past, seeing the great old vehicles by the best makers go thru. Taught us a lot, seeing so many types and styles. The proportions and “gracefullness” are just a pleasure to the eye in the better vehicles. Those dimensions worked for the makers who built vehicles to fit every use, on all kinds of roads.

The modern vehicles were very coarse when they started building them, just ugly. Now some makers have gotten the excellent dimensions of past builders worked out, while other makers still don’t get it. Putting those parts together is also a big factor, needs to have skill in there too. Too much depends on reliable construction, not just pretty results. Look at as many vehicles as you can, try to ride in them as well. See if “pretty” rides comfortably. Antiques will have a much softer ride, old springs, cushioned like a “Grampa car”, than modern, crisp handling vehicles, with a really STIFF ride.

[Cielo_Azure]

I agree with Goodhors about Bob Cook. I just bought my second used vehicle from Bob Cook (that is, I have bought two vehicles from him) -he really has an amazing selection and knowledge base! He will tell you all the pros and cons of a vehicle too. He is easy to work with too.

Jill

[Trakehner]

Run away from Roberts…terrible stuff, not good quality welds, better used quality.

[frankie1159]

Not only have I heard the nightmareish stories about Roberts, allow me to please list the other things:

1- really terrible craftmanship, my boyfriend is a welder & he scoffs at the welds & says this is the reason for the bad rap, bad welds cause weaknesses.

2- My friend has a Roberts Vis a Vis and it weighs almost 2x my antique vis a vis & it is stiff as a board, I would HATE to sit on it for more than an hour. The antiques ride much better and have a CLASSIC look…not so manufactured looking like the Roberts.

3- While your friends might “swear by” Roberts, what about the people who swear against them? That alone should make any safe driver run away from them. Have you heard these stories about Amish vehicles (AMERICAN MADE)? Not me.

3- Roberts are CANADIAN. In this economy- why are you not looking at American?
Justin Carriage http://buggy.com/,
Morgan Carriage http://morgancarriage.com/,
Troyer Carriages http://troyercarriage.com/products.html,
Bob Cook http://www.horsecarriages.com/index.asp
USED carriages at estate sales, ebay, livestock auctions etc

[R_Holyoak]

Canadian vs American

You might want to look at the name of the original poster. fjording_in_ON

Sounds like they are from CANADA.

Not a nice way to treat you neighbors.

Richard from Alberta Canada

[goodhors]

We treated her well here! She knew the Roberts stuff beforehand, chose the other brand name vehicle we had for sale.

I also offered to hitch a horse and give her a ride in the carriage while she was here, she chose not to. OP appeared to be quite happy after loading the carriage, BIG smile, when heading back to Canada.

[frankie1159]

Not bashing Canada- just saying I am an American- I support American made, as every American should in this economy.

I am not into deciphering the meanings of log on names. Not enough time in the day.

Don’t take it so personally. Implying that Robert’s suck doesn’t translate that Canadians do, it’s all basic English- you don’t have to read between any lines. We’re all people of the same planet. That’s how I see it. Why can’t there be a board where people aren’t so sensitive? When you ask for an opinion- get ready for them…they aren’t all going to be in your favor.

[George_Titusville_FL]

Roberts Carriage !!! Love it #1

[QUOTE=horsegeeks;5227625]
What did you decide? I’d heard that the Roberts carriage were not all that good. But like you, I’ve talked to people who swear by them.

We’re considering getting something to allow us to take friends and family driving with us … without taking out a second mortgage. So we’d be very interested in your decision[/QUOTE]

I bought a brand new Roberts Surrey it has a top it is white it is a great carriage and it is safe the welds are fine the brakes work great it was 4300.00 deliverd to my door about 3000 dollar less than everyone else. I was afraide to buy it but it was all I could afford. now I am relizing it is high quality steel construction it weights 750 pounds the floor panels are made of thick plywood it looks like a classy Hotel Carriage I am truly happy I have over a hundred mile on it already and have had it for a month

[TheEquineFencer]

Old post I know…We have a Roberts wagonette here. We bought it used from a friend that hitched it once and the brakes locked with his horse. We got it home and I started checking it out. The drums were out of round to start with, that was what I thought the root cause was. After having the drums tuned and trued and replacing the wheel cylinder cups, it would roll free but when you applied the brakes they would lock up. They used 3/8 nuts for spacers between the hub and drum and the drum was not centered on the hub as there’s no way to hold the drum centered as it was built. I ended up having to oversize the drum holes, then install an axle stub end and use a dial indicator to get the drum true to the axle center. After it was centered, I tightened the drake drum bolts as tight as I dared. They work without locking now, but it’s not perfect. Fast forward to the Dixie Horse Auction this year…There was a LOT of those carriages there. It turns out a guy I met bought one, guess what? He’s got the same problem now! Another Cinderella there someone had “cut” the brake line…my guess was to sell it without someone figuring out the brakes were screwed up IMO. The wood work is a POS, they used plywood with “donuts”, these “donuts” are where they had a knot in the panel and it was “patched.” Instead of using first grade plywood, they used cheap wood and over time as the panel cured/dried, it popped out, it looks like crap. The frame is heavy IMO. I’ll never buy another without planning to install a new axle and proper brakes on it. This one seldom gets used around here unless I’m doing buggy rides on flat ground at a walk and then I never use the brakes BTW. But I have to admit, when they are new, they look good.