…
True Rebecca.:yes:
I wasn’t thinking, doh! I actually did see the dates when you posted them and should have remembered while I was typing.
Rebecca, thank you for all of this information!
Rebecca,
Thanks for all your work compiling the scores. It will be very interesting
hearing the different interpretations.
I love statistics also! 
Ah, yes, but at end-of-year shows, people often get their feet wet at the next level.
Thanks, Rebecca. If you need help with stats, I’ve got a great program and I also love statistics! I’m thrilled that I’ll have actual numbers to quote, which will be useful in my near future.
J.
Very interesting stats. It’s a pretty similar distribution at each level, so it does not look like there are a bunch of people moving up too early at any given level and getting bad scores and “not getting it.”
Either the judges are not using the scoring system to fairly judge these awful, abusive rides OR there has been much exaggeration of all the abuse out there at shows.
Since a 5 is “sufficient”, any ride that scores a 50% or above should NOT be abusive. This is assuming the judges are doing their job and giving accurate scores. So, there are VERY few rides that you could even consider that MIGHT fall into the “abusive” category.
And as someone who has scored a 54% at 2nd level before, I can promise you my horse was not abused in any way, shape or form during that ride. It was my first time showing at 2nd level. I was nervous and didn’t have my horse forward enough.
Part of the problem might be
A part of the problem about low scores, might be (and we also have this in Holland) that judges take the picture of a Warmblood as the ideaal picture for a dressage horse. Low scores over here (50%-55%) are mostly gained by riders who ride Lusitano’s, Andalusiers etc… These type of horses still have to find acceptance by (some) judges. One of the last GP competitions in Holland we had three Friesian horses competing, so it seems that they have been accepted more or less by the judges.
Theo
Theo, on the same note I sponsor thoroughbred breed awards with USDF. Rest assured, when my riders get a score they have very well earned or ridden every single point, no WB-extravagent gaits to aid them through poor riding skills. Add to that equation distant travel and all add’l costs to get to the extra shows proposed, time constraints and family obligations on AAs trying to get past third level, etc.
Kudos to you Rebecca. I am only thinking the data you posted here is already well known by the DC and BOG (USDF keeps impeccable data and can pull many stats, far superior than what USEF keeps track of) and a further break down per level may help see where this new proposal is coming from. Or atleast by doing so you’ll have no surprises.
since looking at actual statistics seems to indicate that the reasons that we have seen stated are not supported by facts
Not at all, please don’t put words into my mouth.
It did always bother me why propose to wait til Third Level to correct poor riding, why not do so at First Level. Correct and pure basics is what matters, not fixing ingrained problems once the rider gets to Third.
But I digress, as I wrote earlier – looking at a further breakdown per level might eliminate any surprises. JMHO.
no attribution meant
Why does anyone thing fancy or extravagant gaits would cover up poor riding? It would do the opposite.
Region 6… I do not believe there were any rated shows for 10/1 onward. Our season ends with the championships at the end of sept. In my opinion that is one month too late into the foul weather season
One issue to take into account is the show conditions when considering scores. Our championships in 2007 ( region 6 ) met with horrendous weather which many have heard about. many of the rings were unridable resulting in the conversion of one warm up to a performance ring leaving 1 20 x ~50 ring for warm up for 4 rings.
in short the conditions were deplorable as reflected in some of the rides. Footing favored larger horses. My horse muddled along and we finsihed the season with lower than average scores.
Unfortunately weather and footing conditions are not reported in the recorded scores Rebecca has. I do not feel that any one shows score range can adequately reflect that scores represent quality of riding overall. I feel a total years group mean is a more responsible look. Thank you rebecca and unnamed assistant for bringing some of these scores to light.
It is a shame that the USDF does not have this published at the end of the season for all eyes.
I think Rebeccas work shows the “bell curve” and reflects what most of us know. the majority are doing just fine. there is no “astrik” to show that the sub 50% ride is due to horrid human interference or just one of those circumstances we all go thru when involved with a beast with a brain the size of a walnut
You can have both
[QUOTE=slc2;2941207]
Why does anyone think fancy or extravagant gaits would cover up poor riding? It would do the opposite.[/QUOTE]
Good riding and fancy or extravagant gaits always comes together.
I have seen so many clinics of (for example Hans Peter Minderhoud, Edward Gal, and Anky). And when they jump on the horses of their students these horses suddenly seem to have developed these extravagant and fancy gaits.
Maybe these riders (and many more) have found the magic button ? Or should I say the button which results in movements the judges of today want to see
Back to the main-topic :
I truly believe that every country (region) should decide to follow their own path, and if the USA want to be the only country in the dressage-world without a qualification system, they probably have a good reason. In Germany you need 10 good scores, in Holland 8 good scores and in Belgium you only need 3 good scores to climb up the ladder. Time will tell what the best choise have been. But at least let the USA go for a flexible qualification system because as Bob Dylan already sung “The Times they are changing” and “The first one now will later be last” .
Yes, the clinician can get on the little horse and make big gaits. No real certainty if the little horse would stay sound making big gaits for long…some would, some wouldn’t. If their conformation and balance are not appropriate for that work, if they are not made for it, they will not stay sound working like that. The other side of it of course is, sure the clinician can get on the little horse and make big gaits. The student may be able to do it at the clinic, the question is can he duplicate it at home. Probably not. To expect otherwise I think is not realistic. That’s why he is the clinician, and the other one is the student -
Why do you think there is such a big difference between how many scores each country requires?
You seem to forget
[QUOTE=slc2;2941558]
Yes, the clinician can get on the little horse and make big gaits. No real certainty if the little horse would stay sound making big gaits for long…some would, some wouldn’t. If their conformation and balance are not appropriate for that work, if they are not made for it, they will not stay sound working like that. The other side of it of course is, sure the clinician can get on the little horse and make big gaits. The student may be able to do it at the clinic, the question is can he duplicate it at home. Probably not. To expect otherwise I think is not realistic. That’s why he is the clinician, and the other one is the student -
Why do you think there is such a big difference between how many scores each country requires?[/QUOTE]
Clinics over here are very different from the clinics in the US. Clinics over here are mostly ( 90%) clinics of trainers with their own students, in which they show the training of students from beginners level to grandprix.
The difference between the European countries, how many scores you need to qualify for the next level, has to do with the amount of competitions you have in these countries. For example; the Netherlands had (the last 5 years)
3.6 million starters in dressage competitions.
Thats also the reason why I stated many times that also in the USA you have to implement this qualification system (or not) per region, and also have to create escape routes.
Theo
Theo
it’s more than that causing problems here. the country is so big that even where there are a lot of shows and dressage is active, all the traveling required for the 1st proposal was punitive financially.
please elaborate
starters = riders entered in show or riders entered in class?
the last 5 years…3.6 million = 720,000 per year or 3.6million per year?
Maths…
720.000 starts every year. Meaning 14.000 every week(end).
These figures come from the amount of startcoupons which are sold every year to the riders.
Theo
