and the population of The Netherlands is ____?
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[QUOTE=SGray;2941969]
and the population of The Netherlands is ____?[/QUOTE]
16.000.000 (16 million) and counting.
goodness - can you imagine if we had the same percentage of starts per population
720.000 starts every year. Meaning 14.000 every week(end).
These figures come from the amount of startcoupons which are sold every year to the riders.
Yeah but.
How many of them were alters?
( that was a joke not a personal attack for anyone that didn’t get it)
Plus if 14,000 rides per weekend is average - why did it take you people sooooo long to beat the Germans?
:winkgrin: fiona. Poke, Poke. Stir, Stir. :lol:
[QUOTE=freestyle2music;2941328]
I truly believe that every country (region) should decide to follow their own path, and if the USA want to be the only country in the dressage-world without a qualification system, they probably have a good reason. In Germany you need 10 good scores, in Holland 8 good scores and in Belgium you only need 3 good scores to climb up the ladder.[/QUOTE]
What new qualification system should Ammies in the USA have to achieve, and why? How does the current proposal make things better? Boost the USA qualifiers in the High Performance division for internationally aspiring riders—fine. Put a little more muscle and sponsorship into the Young Riders Program—fine.
I’m not aware of Canada’s, Switzerland’s or England’s qualifying system for Adult Ammies…
If the US had 14,000 dressage entries per weekend, then we would need a qualification system as well.
That has been my point all along: that a qualification system is necessary in any sport that is OVER-SUBSCRIBED.
But I seriously doubt that the qualification system is what produces athletes with the determination, talent, money and luck to get into the international Grand Prix arena.
If we had enough riders that there was a big pool of hobby-sport AND serious-want-to-stand-on-the-podium-sport, then sure–if both are vying for the same spots at a show, one needs a qualification system.
Considering that many of our shows are UNDER-subscribed, this is hardly a problem.
[QUOTE=canyonoak;2942319]
If the US had 14,000 dressage entries per weekend, then we would need a qualification system as well.
That has been my point all along: that a qualification system is necessary in any sport that is OVER-SUBSCRIBED.
But I seriously doubt that the qualification system is what produces athletes with the determination, talent, money and luck to get into the international Grand Prix arena.
If we had enough riders that there was a big pool of hobby-sport AND serious-want-to-stand-on-the-podium-sport, then sure–if both are vying for the same spots at a show, one needs a qualification system.
Considering that many of our shows are UNDER-subscribed, this is hardly a problem.[/QUOTE]
Actually a better number is to take the Dutch ratio and apply to the US:
720,000 starters/year in a population of 16 million= 4.5% of the population riding dressage.
The US population ~300 million. Take 4.5% of 300 million=13.5 million. Assuming these 13.5 million people were showing dressage 52 weeks a year, that means that there would be about 260,000 dressage riders every weekend…perhaps that is why the Dutch need a qualification system.
Not quite, as I’m sure that each one of those 720,000 were not separate individuals–might make more sense if your divided that number by 4, say, to get the percentage of the population?
[QUOTE=atr;2942573]
Not quite, as I’m sure that each one of those 720,000 were not separate individuals–might make more sense if your divided that number by 4, say, to get the percentage of the population?[/QUOTE]
Forget 4…Let’s be really conservative and divide by 10…
So just divide all the numbers by 10…which says that about .5% of the population ride dressage which would equate to about 1.35 million people in the US, which works out to about 26,000 dressage riders PER WEEKEND…every weekend…
I believe the AQHA is the largest horse breed organization and even their membership (not showing population) is ~500,000…the USDF might have one tenth that number.
and not all of them compete
Let me explain a little more
In Holland you need a startcoupon for every test you ride in a competition, these startcoupons cost Euro 17,= (- US$ 22,20). At our national levels
B(eginners), L(ight), L1 (ight +), M(edium), M(edium+), Z1( Heavy), Z2 (Heavy +) you have many competitions every weekend. At the in between level (your level 3 and 4) we have a average of 3.2 competitions a month.
At the FEI level we also have the same 3.2 competitions a month, plus the international competitions like Jumping Amsterdam, Indoor Brabant etc…
Next to this we have many dressage-competitions which are held together with the jumping competitions.
The average time to travel from your home to the competition grounds are 2.1 hours. However people riding at international levels who are not a member of the Dutch A team often have to ride 20-40 hours to show in Hungary, Poland, Russia, Italy, UK, Scandinavia etc…
Our qualification system starts from day one (B-level) all to the FEI-levels. If a rider has trained a horse to GP you can decide to start at PSG-level with any horse you want. If you think that your horse and yourself are capable to start at a certain level you can ask the KNHS for permission, and mostly they will appoint a competition (where there are 2 O- or I-judges) in which you can show your skills, and these judges will advice the KNHS which level these combination can start.
In our qualification system you can earn scoring points and can lose scoring points, and next to this we have a can and must rule. For example when you have scored 20 points you can move to the next level, but when you have 35points you must move to the next level.
My estimate is (based on my clientbase) that at lower (national levels) riders go to competition 20-30 times a year while at the higher levels this is around 10-15 times a year.
This is in a nutshell the Dutch situation.
Theo
Thank you, Theo, that kind of information, if accurate and I have no reason to believe that it is not, is very helpful and just what we need to try and address the “problem” (not that I think there is one) here in the US.
Thank you. PS my mother is from Maastricht. I grew up eating appelstroop and black licorice buttons. And sending my grandmother canned corn.
Although tabled til Jan 2009, the performance standards proposal will most likely be introduced Summer of 2008. The Board supports the overall concept and asked the Dressage Committee to bring back a detailed proposal for final approval:
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/newsdisplay/viewPR.aspx?id=2744
I think its interesting that you have the can and must points for moving up.
Also, 20- 30 shows a year? That would be alot here.
[QUOTE=Hazelnut;2944667]
I think its interesting that you have the can and must points for moving up.
Also, 20- 30 shows a year? That would be alot here.[/QUOTE]
Specially when you consider that we have (modest) price-money for the winners, and it’s no fun when a rider who stays for 6 years in the same class take (steel) this money away.
And (allthough not many people will like this), we had a tremendous boost in dressage, some years ago, because of, what we call “the Anky effect” .
[QUOTE=Hazelnut;2944667]
I think its interesting that you have the can and must points for moving up.
Also, 20- 30 shows a year? That would be alot here.[/QUOTE]
One thing is driving in europe where it takes maximium 3 days to go from one end to another or the US where it takes 3 days to drive from Austin , Tx to Chicago ,Il. Just the distance makes it already not viable if not impossible. Also there is more enthusiasm in countries like Holland or Germany because dressage is our basis in riding even if you end up jumping or something they all started dressage in the beginning and people in the US that want to hunters start doing hunter seat etc from the beginning. You cannot compare the two systems. The US system is closer to the british system then the european continent system
[QUOTE=rebecca yount;2943190]
Thank you, Theo, that kind of information, if accurate and I have no reason to believe that it is not, is very helpful and just what we need to try and address the “problem” (not that I think there is one) here in the US…[/QUOTE]
Yes, and if I remember Theo from an old thread, Theo’s model includes trainers’ are not allowed to warm-up students’ horses. Well, one can see why!! However, just USEF proposing that trainers’ not be able to warm-up a student’s horse after a certian level would improve riding skills, put riders in the USA on a more level playing field, and be closer to the euro system.
Regardless, as impressive as Rebecca’s and Theo’s numbers are: the USEF and USDF already have this data. One might call the BOG many things—but stupid they are not. They want the change anyway.
[QUOTE=sm;2948663]
However, just USEF proposing that trainers’ not be able to warm-up a student’s horse after a certian level would improve riding skills, put riders in the USA on a more level playing field, and be closer to the euro system.[/QUOTE]
This is one of the things I love about eventing: no one but the exhibiting rider may sit on a horse after 3 p.m. on the day before the official start of competition. Riders have to rider their horses, and it’s a much more level playing field than you often see in other disciplines where a trainer tunes up and the rider just takes the horse into the ring. The difference is that in eventing, a horse only competes with one rider during a show. However, in h/j and dressage, a horse may compete under more than one rider during a show…so it’s not an easy rule to institute in those disciplines.
