Any thots on bloodlines in KWPN second round-dressage?

[Oakstable]

Dressage stallions selected for second round
526 DAVINCI 528003000802971, VB, DP, 21 MAART 2008, BRUIN, 1.67 m
V. VALDEZ, v. HOUSTON KEUR
M. EDORYKE RP, KEUR, PREF, PREST
v. VOLTAIRE PREF M. KARONYKE RP, KEUR, PREF
mv. EROS KEUR – VALKENIER
Breeder/Owner: J A. VAN VENROOY, PAST., v. VROONHOVENSTR. 13, 5482 VA SCHIJNDEL
IBOP-RP MOTHER S. 15 D. 16 G. 17 H. 8 K. 16 GSP. 15 T 87

527 DELANDO 528003000803073, VB, DP, 15 MAART 2008, DONKERBRUIN, 1.67 m
V. VALDEZ, v. HOUSTON KEUR
M. TOLANDA RP, ELITE
v. KRACK C M. OLANDA RP, STER, PREF
mv. INSPEKTEUR – EL CORONA
Breeder/Owner: A A. VAN DER KOPPEL, BOMMELWG 79, 4014 PV WADENOYEN
IBOP-RP MOTHER S. 8 D. 7.5 G. 8.5 GDP. 16 ASP. 6 STN. 5 SVE. 5.5 GSP. 11 T. 67.5

534 DUDE 528003000802455, VB, DP, 6 APRIL 2008, VOS, 1.64 m
V. VIVALDI, v. KRACK C
M. SARINA V.D. KLUMPERT RP, STER
v. HAVIDOFF KEUR M. KORIDA RP, KEUR
mv. RECRUUT – AKTION KEUR
Breeder: A G J. VLOET, HAPS
Owner: TAMERUS BEHEER B.V., PLATTEBAAN 2, 4721 PB SCHIJF

537 DEEJAY 528003000804966, VB, DP,14 MEI 2008, VOS, 1.65 m
V. VIVALDI, v. KRACK C
M. PADEGINI RP, ELITE, SPORT-(DRES)
v. FARRINGTON KEUR M. DEGINI RP, KEUR, SPORT-(DRES)
mv. ULSTER – ECLATANT KEUR
Breeder: J. ELZINGA-SLOOT, BENNEVELD
Owner: L.F. NEKEMAN, VERKAVELINGSWEG 17, 8061 PJ HASSELT

542 DOI DOIDOI 528003000810283, VB, DP, 1 MEI 2008, VOS, 1.64 m
V. VIVALDI, v. KRACK C
M. UNETTE II RP, KEUR
v. GRIBALDI PREF M. UNETTE RP, KEUR, PREF, PREST
mv. CADMUS XX – HURRICANE
Breeder/Owner: J M. VAN UYTERT, V HEEMSTRAWG 6, 6624 KJ HEEREWAARDEN
R. FRANSSEN, KAMPSESTR 25, 6657 AA BOVEN LEEUWEN
STAT.TEST MOTHER S. 8.5 D. 7.5 G. 8 GDP. 16 ASP. 5 STN. 5 SVE. 5 GSP. 10 T. 65

543 DARKBOY 528003000811054, VB, DP, 30 APRIL 2008, ZWART, 1.70 m
V. VIVALDI, v. KRACK C
M. SARITA RP, KEUR
v. HAVIDOFF KEUR M. NIKITA RP, STER
mv. FERRO PREF – HEIDELBERG PREF
Breeder/Owner: FAM. ANDEWEG, LAKEMONDSESTR 1 A, 6668 LH RANDWYK
Owner: A. VALK, VLIETSKADE 60, 4205 NG GORINCHEM

544 DREAM BOY 528003000811812, VB, DP, 09 JULI 2008, ZWARTBRUIN, 1.67 m
V. VIVALDI, v. KRACK C
M. RESIA RP, ELITE
v. FERRO PREF M. IRESIA RP, STER, PREF
mv. BALZFLUG – BLANC RIVAGE XX
Breeder/Owner: T J M. COOMANS, BINNENPAD 257, 3263 AP OUD-BEIJERLAND
STAT.TEST MOTHER S. 7 D. 7.5 G. 7.5 GDP. 15 ASP. 7 STN. 7 SVE. 6 GSP. 13 T. 70

558 DONALDSON 528003000804564, VB, DP,22 MAART 2008, VOS, 1.70 m
V. WESTPOINT, v. JAZZ PREF
M. ZILVIA DP, ELITE
v. FLEMMINGH PREF M. MON CHERIE RP, KEUR, SPORT-(DRES)
mv. CABOCHON KEUR – LECTOR KEUR
Breeder/Owner: J. LAARAKKERS C.LAARAKKERS-LARMOY, OOSTEREINDE 12, 9672 TC WINSCHOTEN
Owner: EMMELIE SCHOLTENS, OLIEEINDSESTRAAT 8, 5481 XN SCHIJNDEL
IBOP-DP MOTHER S 17 D 14 G 16 SPL 7.5 H&B 7.5 R/B 8 ADP 7.5 T. 77.5

569 DREAM THEATHER 528003000806047, VB, DP, 23 MEI 2008, ZWARTBRUIN, 1.65 m
V. WYNTON, v. JAZZ PREF
M. LOLA-G RP, STER
v. G.RAMIRO Z PREF M. CIOLA STB, RP, PREF
mv. PION – PAPILLON
Breeder: J. GORDIJN, SINT-OEDENRODE
Owner: N.F. WITTE, OLIEEINDSESTR 8, 5481 XN SCHIJNDEL
J.G.J. WITTE, OLIEEINDSESTRAAT 8, 5481 XN SCHIJNDEL
M.J.H.M. WITTE-VREES, OLIEEINDSESTR 8, 5481 XN SCHIJNDEL

573 DENVER 528003000807734, VB, DP, 01 JUNI 2008, ZWARTBRUIN, 1.66 m
V. WYNTON, v. JAZZ PREF
M. LUCKY RP, KEUR, SPORT-(DRES)
v. FERRO PREF M. HILKY RP, STER, PREF
mv. CALYPSO – ABGAR XX KEUR
Breeder/Owner: H. VERHOEVEN, DE RUYTERWG 5, 5741 HW BEEK EN DONK
Owner: N.F. WITTE, OLIEEINDSESTR 8, 5481 XN SCHIJNDEL

575 DAMOR 528003000809234, VB, DP, 02 JUNI 2008, BRUIN, 1.64 m
V. WYNTON, v. JAZZ PREF
M. RAMORA RP, STER
v. KRACK C M. HAMORA RP, STER, PREF, PREST
mv. RECHTER – AMOR PREF
Breeder: W A P. VAN DE KERKHOVE, 'S HERTOGENBOSCH
Owner: W L. PLAIZIER, LINDEWEG 14-C, 2995 XK HEERJANSDAM

578 DANCE ROYAL 528003000810252, VB, DP, 21 JUNI 2008, DONKERBRUIN, 1.67 m
V. WYNTON, v. JAZZ PREF
M. WASHINGTON A DP, ELITE
v. FLEMMINGH PREF M. MON CHERIE RP, KEUR, SPORT-(DRES)
mv. CABOCHON KEUR – LECTOR KEUR
Breeder/Owner: W. HOOGESLAG, SCHOTWEG 11, 7448 RR HAARLE
IBOP-DP MOTHER S 17 D 15 G 18 SPL 8.5 H&B 8.5 R/B 8.5 ADP 8.5 T. 84

585 DA VINCI 528003000813188, VB, DP, 1 JULI 2008, BRUIN, 1.69 m
V. ZHIVAGO, v. KRACK C
M. ZISTARIA DP, ELITE
v. SAN REMO M. WISTAVIA RP
mv. WANDERBURSCH II – RAMINO
Breeder/Owner: R. FRANSSEN, KAMPSESTR 25, 6657 AA BOVEN LEEUWEN
Owner: J M. VAN UYTERT, V HEEMSTRAWG 6, 6624 KJ HEEREWAARDEN
IBOP-DP MOTHER S 15 D 15 G 15 SPL 7.5 H&B 8 R/B 7 ADP 7.5 T. 75

586 DIEBRECHT 528003000807845, VB, DP, 06 JUNI 2008, DONKERBRUIN, 1.70 m
V. ZIZI TOP, v. TANGO
M. ORIGINEL RP, KEUR, SPORT-(DRES)
v. KENNEDY M. IRIS RP, KEUR
mv. ASTRONAUT – NEPAL
Breeder: M. KOOL-VAN WOUDENBERGH, SCHUINESLOOT
Owner: M.A.J. BAKKER, PARKWEG 12, 1865 AJ BERGEN AAN ZEE
E.C.R. BAKKER, PARKWEG 12, 1865 AJ BERGEN AAN ZEE
P. SIERSMA, PARKWEG 12, 1865 AJ BERGEN AAN ZEE

591 DEE JAY 528003000805399, VB, DP, 10 MEI 2008, BRUIN, 1.64 m
V. ZIËSTO, v. LANCET
M. PAKINA RP, STER
v. GOODTIMES M. TAKINA RP, KEUR, PREF, PREST
mv. PERICLES XX PREF – SIBOLT
Breeder: J A. SASSEN, HAARLEM
Owner: J T M. MAREE, HARTEVELDLAAN 3, 2675 LE HONSELERSDIJK
T.J.M. COOMANS, RANDWG 33, 3263 RA OUD-BEIJERLAND

593 DANCI 528003000809553, VB, DP, 19 JUNI 2008, BRUIN, 1.66 m
V. ZIËSTO, v. LANCET
M. UFANA STB, RP
v. OSCAR M. NIKITA REG. A, RP
mv. ERATO ZFDP 2E-BEZ. – ZEBULON
Breeder: JOH. VISSER, OUD-BEIJERLAND
Owner: J T M. MAREE, HARTEVELDLAAN 3, 2675 LE HONSELERSDIJK
T.J.M. COOMANS, RANDWG 33, 3263 RA OUD-BEIJERLAND
IBOP-DP MOTHER S 16 D 13 G 15 SPL 7.5 H&B 7 R/B 7.5 ADP 7 T. 73

603 DE BEST TK 528003000808627, VB, DP, PROK, 18 MEI 2008, VOS, 1.63 m
V. WYNTON, v. JAZZ PREF
M. RIENE RP, STER
v. METALL M. ZIPPORA RP, KEUR
mv. LEGAAT KEUR – ECLATANT KEUR
Breeder/Owner: P. KUIJPERS, KERKHOEF 14, 5674 NX NEDERWETTEN
Owner: A. VAN DE TILLAART, KRYTENBURG 21, 5465 PM VEGHEL

[siegi_b]

Thoughts? Well, there is a ton of Jazz blood in all those boys and it makes me wonder - no, feel good - for having gone to Jazz directly for my next two foals.

There are quite a few Vivaldi sons and we all know that the frozen semen is complete crap and that leaves this stallion out for the US.

I’m still waiting for the next new Dutch wonder boy that takes my breath away and has an owner behind him that doesn’t try to screw international breeders (aka Van Uytert).

Happy New Year!

[Oakstable]

Vivaldi and Zhivago by Krack C and sons of Jazz, and sons of Lancet, and a handful of others.

Happy New Year.

[Shooting_Star_Farm]

I’m with Siegi on this: lots of Jazz. Few people are bigger Jazz fans than I, but we’ve got to have some other blood.

If Vivaldi’s first crop of stallion sons are any indication, Siegi, it’s for the best that he’s got crappy frozen. The one son that made it to the testing was excused because he wasn’t good enough. They’re all beautiful types and flashy movers, but they don’t use their bodies well through the topline. We’ll see if this year’s crop is any better.

We do have access to a stallion that should be close to your heart, Siegi, Charmeur (Florencio x Jazz x Ulft). He was one of the standouts at the Stallion Show last year. Great mareline. Plus we’re getting Carlton Hill VDL (Uphill x Vincent x Zebulon), Charming Mood (Winningmood x Contango x Belfalas xx), Bretton Woods (Johnson x DeNiro x Romancier)–all newly approved stallions. Of course, that’s Jazz blood in two out of the four, but at least it’s in the third generation.

[Donella]

Bretton Woods (Johnson x DeNiro x Romancier

I don’t follow Dutch breeding closely but I really like this stallion. I have thought a few times about using a Dutch stallion on my Han mares… I like how this horse is bred (something different!).

[Oakstable]

Well, that stallion class is not short on vos but I don’t see any schimmel.

Maybe in the jumper grouping.

[Forte]

@Shooting Star Farm;5321584

I’m with Siegi on this: lots of Jazz. Few people are bigger Jazz fans than I, but we’ve got to have some other blood.

If Vivaldi’s first crop of stallion sons are any indication, Siegi, it’s for the best that he’s got crappy frozen. The one son that made it to the testing was excused because he wasn’t good enough. They’re all beautiful types and flashy movers, but they don’t use their bodies well through the topline. We’ll see if this year’s crop is any better.

Ok, I’m glad someone else said it. My sample size is very small, but I’m not loving what Vivaldi is putting on the ground. Lots of legs flailing around and not enough swinging in the back for me. The one that I know personally is VERY tight in the back which has caused some mounting issues.

Jazz is superlative. You certainly cannot argue with his success. However, Dutch breeding scares me in that there seems to be a lot of concentration on lines that are not really well known for being easy rides. Most of us don’t ride as well as Anky, Edward or Adelinde.

[Oakstable]

Maybe the only people buying in a tight economy are the pros and they need a highly competitive horse.

I saw a Jazz gelding owned by David Wightman at a GOV inspection and everyone in the bleachers held their collective breath. It was cold and windy and all of us sissys were impressed with the horse and the petite female rider.

[L_L]

http://www.oypo.nl/pixxer.asp?id=ED035BCF712CEFA5

Here are the photos to accompany the selections… takes a while to navigate around but they are all there…

Enjoy

[AdivaStud]

Thanks L&L for the pictures. Agree with shooting star, the Vivaldi group last year was less than inspiring. Charmeur, wow, on paper i was very excited about seeing him and i wasn’t disappointed.

Is anyone going to the stallion show this year?

[Shooting_Star_Farm]

I’m going. Can’t miss it. It’s such a huge educator for those of who don’t get to be surrounded by hundreds of fellow breeders year-round.

Yes, thanks for the pictures. I’m loving the look of the Wyntons. Hope they look this good in person.

[Oakstable]

What bloodlines are good crosses with Jazz and his sons?

[vandenbrink]

I love Jazz, was absolutely mesmerized by his gaits when I saw him under saddle years ago in Den Bosch but I won’t use him on my mares. Krack C worries me a bit as well. Looking at the pedigrees of this selection I’m sure they will impress in the show ring under professional riders and very talented ammies, but it’s not something I can sell to the average customer that buys a horse from me. The ones with slower reflexes and that are more forgiving to the weekend dressage rider is what I need.

But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t love to go to Den Bosch and see who becomes the star of this group!!

[Dutch]

Ferro is one well-know nick with Jazz. I’m sure there are others.

[Oakstable]

On the linear score sheet, Jazz is indicated quite strongly for sickle hocks.

How will so much Jazz blood impact conformation going forward?

When my mare, Mariah, got her Ster designation, she was marked “x” for sickle hocks. I can barely see them. Gert Van Der Veen was the KWPN judge. (This was before the really detailed linear scoring.)

I remember after he died that some people said Gert was forgiving of sickle hocks, but the next judges were not.

Any Dutch breeders care to comment?

[Oakstable]

Siegi,
Have sickle hocks shown up in your Jazz kids?

[Sabino_Farm]

Any word on the quality of Charmeur’s semen and if mare’s are pregnant with it?

[siegi_b]

@Oakstable;5676563

Siegi,
Have sickle hocks shown up in your Jazz kids?

I have a 12-year old Jazz mare who has sickle hocks. It’s a little early to tell if the two Jazz foals from this year have them… Right now I would say no.

Sickle hocks don’t bother me that much - I guess it depends on the degree of them. Same with slightly straight hocks… I haven’t found that it affects the horse’s performance or gaits.