Trying to find someone (or multiple someones!) who are somewhat knowledgeable about Morgans. I am helping someone try and sell a youngster (Kind of a consignment, kind of an adoption, complicated situation. I am happy to elaborate if asked). The problem is she has one idea of what she thinks he is worth, and I’m not really so sure. I think she is overvaluing him, possibly significantly. But I don’t know much about this breed. I’m quite well versed in Quarter horses and Arabians, and bloodlines and types and registration and what not for those breeds. But Morgan’s I’m just kind of lost.
Before I give out a bunch of details is there anyone here who might have some advice or input?
we have Morgans, ours are old styles based on Lippitt lines (go back four generations that takes you to horses born 100 years ago)… the price of an average run of the mill Morgans never has been really high.
However those with the credentials to prove their worth can command impressive figures
Thanks Clanter. we re talking about a palomino two year old. registered and intact. Color genetics tested. Sire is a cremello stallion so they strike me as color first breeders, but I’m not entirely sure. I have his papers at home and can post his bloodlines. If I remember correctly from pics his sire does western or western pleasure in some form I remember seeing some show pics of him.
Let your fingers do some walking through some of the various websites and see what real world asking prices are. Then remember that asking prices are just that!!!
You can also look around for Morgan discussion groups and lurk on the price page and see what’s there and what the discussions on price might be.
I’d echo clanter that if you have an elite bred horse you might get an elite price. But that market segment for ANY breed is very, very narrow. The color is a big plus. Size might be a big thing. Pictures of sire and dam (in addition to pedigree) would be useful for marketing.
Amateur owners of almost anything are absolutely dreadful at realistically pricing something in the vast majority of cases. If they are big on color it’s even worse. If you’re going to help them then it would be worthwhile to take what you find and have a “sit down” to review what the market is saying. If they are realistic then press on. If they are not then you might want to withdraw from the project. All you’ll do under that circumstance is stress yourself. Never stress yourself; others are only too happy to do it for you!!!
If you can post his bloodlines that would help a lot. "Unusual " colored Morgans are sometimes eyed with suspicion. Good bloodlines would be important.
We have one buckskin that my daughter competed nationally with … the “colored” Morgans are more than there were but still are I believe its under 2% of the registry (and looked down upon by the traditionalist) … Daughter’s horse is of government lines, he came from North Dakota. His primary attribute is cockiness… he thinks all other are commoners that should worship the high ground he stands upon
I believe she paid $5,000 for him as a four year old
I suggest you contact the American Morgan Horse Association, specifically ask for Erica Eulau , she is the Registrar for the association ( she has been with the AMHA I know since the early 1990s when she was the youth director, that is how I got to know her as our kids where at all the national functions) AMHA phone number (802) 985-4944
as a note it was not until 1996 when the high white rule was repealed that you could register a cremello Morgan
I’m not expert on Morgans or bloodlines, but I do have a palomino Morgan!
IME, Morgans are a specific taste so there is not as large a buyer pool as there is for QH or TB. As a stallion, your buyers are limited even more and of course bloodlines are more important. If he is not breeding quality, a buyer will figure in their cost and time invested in gelding so it lowers his value to them. His color is a plus for most buyers although some breeders remain conservative.
There is a Morgan sale page on the Registry website which may give you some insight.
Unless he has fabulous bloodlines and show/competition potential, it’s a minus that he is not gelded. People who are looking for a recreational mount will not be interested in an intact youngster.
If you are having a hard time assessing his potential, look up the breeder and see how successful they have been.
What is his breeding and why is he not gelded? I know a Smokey palomino Morgan shows and wins in pleasure for 6k. A non broke stud isn’t worth much. Call the Morgan Association and get a reference to a trainer for an evaluation. Some of the colored lines are difficult, but majority are easy least especially as a 2 y/o, he needs to be de-nutted asap.
I’ve been helping a friend of mine a little bit (mainly photography) with her 2yo flashy coloured Morgan colt. She won’t geld him because she wants him and his half sibling as stud prospects if he doesn’t sell. Problem is I don’t think he will sell if she doesn’t geld him.
He’s tall, he moves super flashy, he’s super chill and personable, and everyone I show photos to without tell them he’s a Morgan think he’s some type of sport horse baby. But he’s not, and that’s killing his sales prospects. I ride hunters and I would love to have him, but she’s asking about $5k US and I think he’s worth maybe half that if she won’t chop his nuts off.
Morgan’s are a niche market in comparison to a QH or paint or TB or warmblood. People have this image of them as hot heads with need action for days. They aren’t all like that, but most people looking for a prospect are looking for either their preferred breed or something that will sell easily. Morgan’s don’t really fit that second category, and they aren’t the breed of choice for many.
When you have an ungelded 2yo you shrink the pool of potential buyers even further because most amateurs do not want a stud, and they don’t have anywhere to put it while they geld it and wait the 60 days out.
if you can convince them to geld him, do it! He’s not worth much of anything as a colt unless he is broke and has some type of record to prove he’s worth something.
I am not here to defend the Morgans and ours are not unusual (maybe exceptional LOL) but in all my years around them hot head is something I have never seen… sensible, smart easy to train…extremely versatile… biggest problem we have ever had is they think they need to help you with everything around the ranch/farm …and often believe they have a better way of doing the task than you do.
On the versatility … you end up with western tack, English tack, harness, competitive trail tack… for each horse, and they know their job by the tack they wear… and never forgot a thing.
As noted ours are old line Morgans …around here we were constantly being asked if they were King Ranch Quarter horses … before the QH registry was started in 1941 the King Ranch had one of the largest herds of Morgans in the country… many if not all became quarter horses after 1941
I’ve had three. The first was a mare (no papers), but from a previous home (and looks!) I suspect was of Brunk breeding. I always wish that I had tried to find her papers later on. The second was Government/Working Western, had been a stallion until age 9 when he was gelded. “Blue” had 7 offspring but was the best behaved/trained horse, and I NEVER saw any ‘leftover’ stallion behavior from him. My current Morgan gelding is gorgeous, can be a stinker, but I would not call him “hot.” He is very “western” and is almost pure Lippitt AND was bred and came from Texas.
Makes me wonder if he’s any relation to clanter’s horses…
Has @quietann seen this thread? I seem to recall that she has a palomino Morgan. She might know something about the demand for color in this breed.
I have a Morgan whose breeding is mostly Government lines with some Western Working influence, but I’m certainly not an expert in the breed – it was definitely a “horse that chooses you” situation that landed her in my life.
@lifeishorsesarelove I know exactly what you mean about sporthorse. I’ve had a lot of people mistake mine for a german riding pony or small warmblood. Once you tell them she’s a Morgan they see it, but she’s got more of a generic sporthorse vibe than a typey Morgan look. A prior owner decided to breed her to an Oldenburg sire and register her babies as American Warmbloods – no doubt the economics of Morgan demand factored into that breeding decision.
It seems like marketing these types as “Morgan sporthorses” is becoming more and more common. There’s some level of demand in the ammy market for it, but it’s definitely not a segment of the market that wants ungelded 2 year olds! I can only imagine that as long as he’s intact the OP’s sales project horse would be marketable primariily to the very small segment of color-first Morgan breeders, and even then only if the breeding and conformation are exceptional.
that sounds like one of Sammy Young’s horses from Gunter TX (north of Dallas) ranch is named Shallow Creek … our Morgans came from Kentucky except for the buckskin from North Dakota
the funny thing about this we went back to Kentucky over Thanksgiving to look for an English pleasure horse for kids, we looked at two/three hundred head between then and Christmas…but there was this “one” who kept looking at me … the horse was young a long yearling…we were looking for an aged proven horse for the kids…but this yearling just kept looking at me … she was nice looking but wasn’t what we were looking for.
(the by-line for the breed has become The Horse that Chooses You…which in our case was very true)
Later that evening my wife and I talked about the horses we had seen that day, did not say much at all about the yearling …but she was nice. The next day I went back and bought her as I told my wife if we do not buy this horse now we could never afford her later (which trued out to be very true as we kept refusing offers on this horse, we kept her the rest of long life) . arranged that she would stay there in training until she stopped improving, after all she was to be our kids horse.
EVERTHING at this training stable was English pleasure… some thirty or forty head in training
So we went back too Texas arranged a return in the Spring … surprise …there is our filly in western tack.
Really was a what the hell moment as we could have bought a few hundred western horses here in the Ft worth area
But the trainer was good, very good actually… the filly just was not an English pleasure horse, she actually ended up doing everything but English pleasure … the none English pleasure horse went on to win the hearts of many including our kids
The one thing that has not been said Morgans are very stoic and non complaining which requires us to be watchful of them,
the breed’s versatility really is a driving force, my daughter’s buckskin in a three week period competed and placed in an endurance ride of fifty five miles, the next weekend went to the Morgan Nationals placing second in working hunt over fences, then the following weekend was hauled down to the Davis Mountains for NATRC competitive trail ride of sixty miles ride at 6500 to 7200 feet … he won his division but missed be overall champ at that ride by one heart beat to horse from Colorado who lived at 7500 feet… her horse is kept here at home at about 430 feet elevation… came home and was ready for more.
then there was the filly … she was just good… smart … learned voice commands on her own by listening to the ring announcer at shows… one judge thought she saw her changing gaits as the announcement was made then started playing with her by mixing up all sorts of gait changes … then had the ring steward move up and down the line up area…the hose was following him as the announcement was to line up on the steward … the judge was laughing at her (we had loaned the horse to new rider who had never shown before, so Foxie took over and took care of her charge)
A Morgan breeding facility was donated to the Army. It was in VT, IIRC. Morgans were popular with Artillery officers because they were versatile and could pull guns as well as work under saddle. Light horses were preferred for Field Artillery as they were faster walkers and more thrifty than big horses, like drafts and half drafts.
They were also popular with Infantry officers as they were often better tempered and easier to ride than the TB and TB-types favored by the Cavalry.
During the ACW they were used in numbers but after the War not so much as it was cheaper to buy more coarse stock and the Army in those days was starving cheap. There were a few Morgans in the Remount stallion program but they were a small minority.
I carried around Justin Morgan Had A Horse for a decade when I was a kid. All my dream horses were Morgans. Now I’m all grown up (kinda) and can buy what I want so just STOP.
