Anyone else have a horse that just can't trot fences? UPDATE post 29

[McVillesMom]

I have a 5 y.o. Trakehner gelding that just can’t trot jumps to save his life. As in, he’s totally unmotivated by them. I’m coming from many years of riding only my TB, and this youngster is as lazy as they come. We are working on getting the “go” button more solidly established on the flat, and have made good progress there, but over fences is a different story.

Gymnastics with him are a special kind of hell. He never, ever stops, but I have a very hard time getting him forward enough that the distances are normal for him. While he is still a little lazy in canter, he is SO MUCH EASIER to jump from canter. And if I do wake him up by galloping his feet off and then come back to the gymnastic, it does generally go better.

Is this a huge, important part of his training that if I skip it, I’ll be very sorry later? Just feeling extra frustrated today…I know I should be glad that I have such a quiet, level-headed youngster, but a happy medium would be nice…

[sunhawk]

I’ll take him off your hands…I can’t ride a trot to fences to save my life…I like to get the greenies cantering asap

[McVillesMom]

Lest anyone think he’s a total disaster, here’s his stadium round from Octoberfest last weekend:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10205379858726029&l=2754426158767029383

And a jumper round from this summer:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204830913402739&l=4325260157351144850

[RockstarPony]

Are these little tiny jumps that he’s just not picking his feet up over? I think that’s pretty normal, for a younger horse to interpret it as a slightly raised pole on the ground vs a small jump. Plenty of horses aren’t sure what to do with that size but figure it out when it’s a bigger fence that they’re clearly meant to jump.

My only worry would be whether he’ll trot over stuff on XC, if he’s never done that before. I’ve seen plenty of young horses have to trot the whole Intro course so they have time to think, but if he’s that quiet, you might not have the normal spookiness problems to deal with.

I would worry about him being behind your leg. It sounds like the real issue is not whether he can trot over a jump, but that you’re asking for more energy all the time and not getting much of a response. Make sure your position is quiet and your aids are very clear and very consistent, and make sure he goes right away when you ask him to. It might take more effort to get the same level of energy than it would have on your TB, but if you’re asking and he’s not giving you any kind of response, that really will cause you a ton of problems in the near future.

[China_Doll]

Have you done blood work to make sure he was normal? Lots of things physically could make his energy low

[McVillesMom]

I have not yet done blood work, although he has plenty of energy on the ground and in the field (he’s actually pretty alpha!) He is better XC, and cantered happily around the starter course at Octoberfest. As I said in my OP, we are working on the go button and have made a lot of progress. When we canter fences, I have no problem getting him to gallop forward to them when I ask… it’s just trot that’s really an issue. And not so much not picking up his feet, as just plopping over them and landing in a heap on the other side…which makes it a little hard to get one canter stride and then jump an oxer!

[RockstarPony]

Sorry about that, I hit post before seeing your videos! He doesn’t look half as lazy as I was expecting! It might just be a coordination issue - that trot to jump transition can be weird for a lot of horses, and I can totally see why a perfectly willing five year old might lose his track of himself a little on the way over. Have you tried cantering in to gymnastics with him?

[McVillesMom]

I have…today I set up an exercise from the Wofford gymnastics book, which consisted of one “regular” distance (trot poles to crossrail to 18’ to an oxer), a short distance (2 small verticals at 16’) and a long distance (2 low wide oxers at 32’). They are designed to be trotted, but after trotting into the “regular” distance and feeling like I was barely getting out over the oxer, I knew there was no way I was trotting the line of oxers! That was the point where I “galloped his feet off” and jumped the low wide oxers out of canter. He did that fine, and after that I re-approached the first gymnastic out of trot and it was better. I also cantered the 16’ line and he popped right through it - he’s very clever with his front end. He’s an odd one!

Just to prove that he CAN, in fact, trot a gymnastic:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204944484521946&l=7900056051504719583

[BEARCAT]

I would be doing tons of transitions on the flat to get him super sharp, focusing especially on good, energetic downwards from canter to trot.

[ACMEeventing]

I think he just looks like a baby figuring out where is feet are. The act of rocking back to trot a fence really does not compute for them at first, and it takes a good degree of coordination.

He seems like an awesome, honest guy who’s trying to learn. I really wouldn’t sweat it too much. If he were rushing the fences or taking fliers it would be a different story.

Adorable horse and you guys look super together

Edited to add - often times their energy really wanes as they grow, maybe it’s a response to the leg, or maybe he just needs more time

[SlamDunk]

[QUOTE=BEARCAT;7840914]
I would be doing tons of transitions on the flat to get him super sharp, focusing especially on good, energetic downwards from canter to trot.[/QUOTE]

This, just keep plugging away at it. There’s quite an improvement between your two videos so I’m sure you are on the right track. I’d keep trotting jumps as singles, and I would keep the grids simpler so that if he makes a mistake there won’t be any dire consequences. I like the grid from your video, but the one you posted specs for might be a little much for the time being.

[PNWjumper]

I don’t think you have a horse that won’t trot fences, just one who’s still working on figuring it out.

But to answer the original question, yes, there are some horses who cannot trot fences. My TB cannot trot a fence to save his life, and not for lack of trying since I like to incorporate all of that into all of my horses’ flatwork.

He also struggles to walk fences, cavaletti, or anything more than a single pole, and struggles with trotting trot poles, cavaletti, etc. He’s my FEI jumper, so jumping is not an issue, but I’ve always suspected that he doesn’t really know where his feet are, and he can’t cope in that moment where the fence leaves the horse’s sight and they have to react without seeing what they’re doing.

[wendy]

I wonder if it’s a strength issue? if you’re moving fast you can use the impulsion to get over the jump. If you’re not, you have to sit back and power off your hindquarters. If you’re a greenie with weak muscles you can’t do that. It’s certainly worth working on- if a horse can’t power up and over from a bad spot you might come to grief sometime, somewhere. Lots of trotting poles and walking up hills might help.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=McVillesMom;7840562]
I have a 5 y.o. Trakehner gelding that just can’t trot jumps to save his life. As in, he’s totally unmotivated by them. I’m coming from many years of riding only my TB, and this youngster is as lazy as they come. We are working on getting the “go” button more solidly established on the flat, and have made good progress there, but over fences is a different story.

Gymnastics with him are a special kind of hell. He never, ever stops, but I have a very hard time getting him forward enough that the distances are normal for him. While he is still a little lazy in canter, he is SO MUCH EASIER to jump from canter. And if I do wake him up by galloping his feet off and then come back to the gymnastic, it does generally go better.

Is this a huge, important part of his training that if I skip it, I’ll be very sorry later? Just feeling extra frustrated today…I know I should be glad that I have such a quiet, level-headed youngster, but a happy medium would be nice…[/QUOTE]

yup. Huge part of your training because it really isn’t about trotting fences, it is about teaching your lazy horse to be responsive to your leg and in front of your leg. If you don’t fix this now…it will be an issue. Your difficulty in trotting fences just highlights this hole in your horse’s training.

To me there is a huge difference in what the OP describes and the more typical trouble trotting fences where the horse takes a canter step before the jump. That is often caused by the rider and once it becomes a habit it is very difficult to break. Placing poles are helpful with a rider that is very good about waiting and not jumping ahead.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Also. After looking at the videos. Make sure you do not rush his trot past his rhythm in an effort to create energy and make the distances. That throws his balance off. Work on transition and getting him quicker off your leg. Then trot normally (not rushed but keep him in front of your leg), and add leg at the base of the fence and on landing. Not rushing him before.

It will get better. He is just green.

[enjoytheride]

In your Octoberfest video I was clucking at him, he’s a nice sized horse but he’s got a little pony trot and he’s way behind your leg. I think as you explore finding a better and more obedient trot he’ll get better at trotting fences. He still looks very very laid back at the canter but the extra impulsion helps you along.

[McVillesMom]

Thanks everyone. Getting him forward has been my biggest issue; he’s very quiet, especially for a youngster, but that actually makes him harder to ride, especially for someone who’s used to a forward TB! I think I know that it will come with time, as I continue to work on getting him quicker off my leg - I just was super frustrated yesterday. Thanks for the reminder to do more transitions - I try, but I’m probably not doing enough, and one can never do enough, right?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=McVillesMom;7841270]
Thanks for the reminder to do more transitions - I try, but I’m probably not doing enough, and one can never do enough, right? ;)[/QUOTE]

Probably not I’d ride and initial jump always with a dressage whip–if you ever do not get the response from your leg…you need to use it. I would also take a few rides where you focus on nothing but quick off the leg. Start at the halt and go to trot…soft leg, if he doesn’t respond, pop him with the dressage whip (and leg at the same time). If he shoots off…let him–DO NOT hold or take back with the reins, tell him he is good and let him move forward for a bit. Do not try and keep him round or on the contact. Just focus on quick off the leg. Back to the halt, rinse and repeat…multiple times around the ring. If he gets to where halting is hard, do it from the walk. You shouldn’t care about the quality of the transition in terms of keeping him connected or even if he skips the trot and goes right into canter…all you care about is soft leg aid equals FORWARD–even if too forward. Some horses you have to repeat this a few days in a row…and some warmbloods you have to repeat this at the start of EVERY damn ride. But he is old enough that you can work on this…and fix it now. Good luck!

[McVillesMom]

Thanks BFNE…that’s exactly what we’re doing. And yes, every damn ride…

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=McVillesMom;7841390]
Thanks BFNE…that’s exactly what we’re doing. And yes, every damn ride…[/QUOTE]

yeah…I hated that about the some of the warmbloods that I’ve started. The first WB/crossed that I owned and started myself was like that (Muggle). His sister was NOT like that and very forward but she is all TB. Muggle was a PITA about it—UNLESS we were jumping, then he was better but still, I knew the hole was there. I hated that I had to have the same DAMN conversation that YES he did need to move sharply off my leg. It does get better (as he is now happy at the 3* level with someone else who doesn’t mind kicking ;)…but some of these boys, it will ALWAYS be there and you have to ALWAYS remind them. Brats.