Anyone Gone Through a Permitting Battle for an Indoor Arena?

[Pennywell_Bay]

My late father was on the Zoning Hearing Board in PA for 30 plus years (in a very affluent area). I’d advise the OP to go to some of the zoning meetings in your township. Some board members can/may help steer you in the right direction.

There are sometimes instances where you can get your permits OTC -sort of speak- smaller projects with uses permitted by right can be approved quickly. I have found that the townships I have dealt with a willing to talk to you to help steer you.

I’ll just offer the advice from my past 2 farms: 1 in PA, 1 in Indy. In PA I had my father to help navigate the zoning and permits. When I had a larger building put in, the contractor handled the permits (supervised by my dad ha). One person did not go through the permits, started putting up their very large garage/barn and the township made them stop. Not only were they fined, they ended up having to take the building down (due to water issues and permeable surface).

When I relocated to Indy, I looked up the zoning laws online (easements, distances etc). I also emailed the zoning committee to get guidance on how to proceed. They also directed me to where I get the permits etc. I was a little ahead of the game in navigation, as I grew up listening to zoning horror stories.

[2horseygirls]

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;8838165]
From a lay person’s point of view, the zoning of the property sets out permitted, conditional and variant uses allowed. Permitting of the building is about having it built to certain standards. At least, that is how I see it.

You won’t get a permit to build a structure – to any standard – if the underlying property zone does not allow that use.[/QUOTE]

I understand what you are saying, but it doesn’t matter what a lay person’s perception is. It matters how things actually work. You need an engineering/land planning firm - if you find a good one (per my earlier post), your project will go smoothly.

Barrington Hills, IL is high money equestrian country outside Chicago. There has been a neighbor dispute that has spilled over into zoning and permitting issues for the last 9 years and counting - details may be found here: https://barringtonhillschronicle.com/tag/barrington-hills/

Mr. Drury and his attorney Mr. Birney came up with the recommended language of the “Drury Amendment” on their own (per Mr. B) without consulting any experts, best practices, or any of the other 18 operating commercial boarding barns within the village limits.

Those opposed to the restrictions and language in the Drury Amendment brought in John A. Blackburn (http://blackburnarch.com/about/staff-profiles/) and co-author of Healthy Stables by Design, as their expert.

Be sure you have your ducks in a row, or have hired someone who does.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

When I see the details of different cases and situations being shared here, I am definitely glad we went ahead and hired a good engineering firm to walk us through all aspects of permitting for our farm construction.

It has been eye opening, expensive, and we feel like every two weeks we learn about a new requirement or study that costs us more time and money. But… Having to find and hire a lawyer AFTER construction is done because you are charged with a violation… That would DEFINITELY be upsetting.

Just pay up front.

[enjoytheride]

I had a friend who could not get a permit to build a small barn on her property.

However, she didn’t need a permit to take an existing 12 X 12 foot shed, blow the walls and roof off, and turn it into a 5 stall barn with a 12 X 24 foot aisle. Enough of the original structure (which was on the property map) remained that it flew under the radar.

[Chief2]

I am siding with Mr. King’s Ransom on this, but I would amend it to say get a good land use attorney–one with a good reputation in your state. In this state, when it comes to town halls, P&Z, etc, things just seem to work more smoothly and go a lot faster once a certain land use atty’s name comes into play. He knows the in’s, the out’s and can tell you which course to follow and exactly how to go about it. Start with a consult, and go from there. Totally worth the money. If you start getting back talk in the town hall, just drop the name with a smile, and that usually puts an end to resistance.

Good choice on selecting the Clear Span structure. The Clear Span was the only structure of that type that didn’t come down in the heavy snow storms we have had over the past years. It just keeps on shedding the snow no matter how much you get! Good luck!

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8843981]
I had a friend who could not get a permit to build a small barn on her property.

However, she didn’t need a permit to take an existing 12 X 12 foot shed, blow the walls and roof off, and turn it into a 5 stall barn with a 12 X 24 foot aisle. Enough of the original structure (which was on the property map) remained that it flew under the radar.[/QUOTE]

I guess somehow she extended it if it has a 24 foot aisle from a 12x 12 shedrow? But if she ever sells the property or has it assessed, they’ll most likely ding her due to permeable surface. The square footage must have changed. Most ordinances refer to the square footage of a building or structure. Most townships have specific sections with sheds, garages and outdoor structures. A lot of things people do under the radar come back to bite them in the future.

OP- do not try to fly under the radar. Know the ordinances and get the right permits and, in your case, have an engineer or contractor to work with you.

[2DogsFarm]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8845413]
A lot of things people do under the radar come back to bite them in the future.

OP- do not try to fly under the radar. Know the ordinances and get the right permits and, in your case, have an engineer or contractor to work with you.[/QUOTE]

Agreed!
The Barnbuilder Fairy must have waved her wand over me.
I was totally ignorant of the Ins & Outs of building, but fortunately the Builder I chose had connections in City Hall.
I ended up needing 2 variances for the square footage & height of my indoor in addition to the required permits for building the arena & attached barn.
Builder actually accompanied me to the Govt. Ctr to apply for permits & variances.
I went unaccompanied to the Zoning/Planning meeting required for the variances & though cookies & punch were served, the Board meant Business!
Keeping a smile on my face & in my voice certainly helped as I had to repeatedly answer the same questions from neighbors attending as well as Board members. Both variances granted, no lawyer required.
Hope your experience goes as well, KR.

[enjoytheride]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8845413]
I guess somehow she extended it if it has a 24 foot aisle from a 12x 12 shedrow? But if she ever sells the property or has it assessed, they’ll most likely ding her due to permeable surface. The square footage must have changed. Most ordinances refer to the square footage of a building or structure. Most townships have specific sections with sheds, garages and outdoor structures. A lot of things people do under the radar come back to bite them in the future.

OP- do not try to fly under the radar. Know the ordinances and get the right permits and, in your case, have an engineer or contractor to work with you.[/QUOTE]

She made it longer out the back and wider on the sides and raised the roof Somehow it qualified as making improvements to an existing structure. I don’t know all the legalities and she died suddenly and the property went back to the bank so I’m not sure of the outcome.

[King_s_Ransom]

So many horror stories … and so much good advice.

I absolutely will not try to fly under the radar.

I have spoken to the planning director at our county’s P&Z and though I still have some questions and need some things clarified, this does not look like it will be a nightmare…though of course Murphy’s Law is always lurking in the background!

[stoneymeadow]

What county are you in?