Anyone gone to court for their dogs running at large?

[invinoveritas]

[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8562447]
I did answer. I rescue. All of said dogs I have are rescue dogs. Only one is a trained protection dog, the others have been trained in schutzhund. Which means they learned to bite a tug. Not a person. They are trained in it because I find it fun and I train dogs in that for a living (as well as other kinds of dog training). I do not have 6 protection dogs. I have 6 large dogs that my neighbors find frightening (because they are large.) and one trained protection dog.

I’d say I do the breeds I have a lot of Favors because when I take them out in public (including volunteering at hospitals!) we get tons of compliments. Sorry I don’t wish to advocate these dogs as being nice to my asshole neighbor.

ETA: if you don’t know my dogs personally or me, don’t tell me I’m not doing the breed any favors. Your le making assumptions you know nothing about.[/QUOTE]

This is puzzling. The rhodesian ridgebacks owned by one BO who were schutzhund trained in California were trained to attack people. The pit bull a dog trainer owned was trained to attack people. That is the whole premise of schutzhund training according to the dog trainers that I have known. The rhodesians actually once brought now a burglar. But all of those dogs, rhodesians and pit bull were closely monitored to make sure they did not attack anyone else. Including me and other boarders so we could walk among them (with owners present) without being attacked.

They were also very quiet. Which is actually more scary to see them observing and watching people without barking.

The police attack dogs which are schutzhund trained, and a friend of mine used to train the belgian malinois on the east coast, were also were quiet and watchful. Even when they sat in the police cars without their handlers around. So don’t tell me schutzhund trained dogs are barkers.

Now the vicious guard dogs used at businesses in the city to prevent burglars would come to the chain link fences and bark and snarl at us if we walked by. Including at the car dealership I used in the city.

OP must use a different method of dog training than the competitive people and policemen who train dogs do from coast to coast.

[Ready_To_Riot]

Schutzhund is for sport. They are trained to bite that fake arm you see people wearing. The tug. That is the only thing they will bite. They do not attack people. Training to attack a person who is a threat is an entirely different ball game. A threatening person isn’t going to be wearing that sleeve… So no. My schutzhund dogs, nor ones that a trained for the sport, will bite a person. They only get rewarded for biting that sleeve.
Also, they are absolutely barkers. It’s part of their training.

Please do your research.

[rothmpp]

I’m very late to the party - but OP? Were I you - I would put some work into setting up a monitor for when you leave your pack out while you are not home so you know exactly what is going on.

My guess is that perhaps they are being super annoying/barking. Based on your description of your town, there are very few regulations regarding pets/noise/etc… So maybe your neighbor is complaining about the only thing he can - even if it is a lie? The pack mentality can be very strong - especially when the pack leader (you) is not around.

You are well within your rights to leave your dogs out in your fenced yard whenever you please - but unless you are 100% sure they are not causing a noise issue while you are gone - you don’t know what your neighbors may be putting up with.

My former neighbors had two of the barkiest dogs on the planet. Their pothead kids would put the dogs outside all day. The dogs never left the yard, but they barked. ALL.DAY.LONG. I work from home and my office window faces their yard. I literally called my husband at work one day and told him that we had to move. That’s how irritating it was. I couldn’t leave the window open, and I could still hear them. We mentioned it to the parents - whose response was, no, they don’t bark. I finally recorded it for a couple hours and gave it to the parents. The best day I had in a very long time was the day the moving truck pulled out of their driveway.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8562575]
Schutzhund is for sport. They are trained to bite that fake arm you see people wearing. The tug. That is the only thing they will bite. They do not attack people. Training to attack a person who is a threat is an entirely different ball game. A threatening person isn’t going to be wearing that sleeve… So no. My schutzhund dogs, nor ones that a trained for the sport, will bite a person. They only get rewarded for biting that sleeve.
Also, they are absolutely barkers. It’s part of their training.

Please do your research.[/QUOTE]

:lol:

And police dogs are trained to bite the arm as well.
If they only bite the ‘tug’ and forget about the ‘dummy’, they fail. In Schutzhund as well as in cop school.

Yep, do your research. as for one I have yet to see any footage of police stopping to put a sleeve on a suspect before they turn the dog loose…

:lol:

[Ready_To_Riot]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8562622]
:lol:

And police dogs are trained to bite the arm as well.
If they only bite the ‘tug’ and forget about the ‘dummy’, they fail. In Schutzhund as well as in cop school.

Yep, do your research. as for one I have yet to see any footage of police stopping to put a sleeve on a suspect before they turn the dog loose…

:lol:[/QUOTE]

Thank you for proving my point? You’re right. Cops don’t stop and put the suspect in a sleeve. Which is why a dog trained for schutzhund and a protection dog are two totally different animals.

Sure, they start out the same, but a police dog goes away from that training and is then taught to just bite, whatever they can get ahold of, not the arm.

Let me dumb it down for you, if a police dog was taught only to bite the arm of a person holding a gun, the the dog will go after the gun itself… I bet that dog is going to get shot. Now, if the police dog is trained to just attack the person (or a personal protection dog) it has a much better chance of grabbing the bad persons side, or leg, which will distract the bad person long enough to allow the cop to get the gun out of the persons hand.

So as I said before, do your research. Learn the difference between the sport of schutzhund and a protection dog.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8562651]
Thank you for proving my point? You’re right. Cops don’t stop and put the suspect in a sleeve. Which is why a dog trained for schutzhund and a protection dog are two totally different animals.

Sure, they start out the same, but a police dog goes away from that training and is then taught to just bite, whatever they can get ahold of, not the arm.

Let me dumb it down for you, if a police dog was taught only to bite the arm of a person holding a gun, the the dog will go after the gun itself… I bet that dog is going to get shot. Now, if the police dog is trained to just attack the person (or a personal protection dog) it has a much better chance of grabbing the bad persons side, or leg, which will distract the bad person long enough to allow the cop to get the gun out of the persons hand.

So as I said before, do your research. Learn the difference between the sport of schutzhund and a protection dog.[/QUOTE]

LOL, nope, dear, you are wrong.

I do give you this ONE point though: trainers believe that dogs trained to bite , and more importantly to let go, are less likely to bite, compared to pets.

But PULEEEZE: Don’t try to tell anybody that because they are trained to the sleeve, they will never bite a human!
If that was the case, police dogs would never bite…after all, cops would run out of training partners pretty quickly…

But in all, you said a page ago you were done with this thread.
Maybe it’s time you stick to your guns.
The hole you are digging gets deeper.
Send me a post card from China when you get there!

And good luck.
We had those dogs that people feared, because they were big with a loud bark.
Somebody ended up poisoning one of them. We never found out who, and precisely why. Unless your dogs are also trained to eat only, and ONLY what you provide, they are at risk.

[Ready_To_Riot]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8562665]
LOL, nope, dear, you are wrong.

I do give you this ONE point though: trainers believe that dogs trained to bite , and more importantly to let go, are less likely to bite, compared to pets.

But PULEEEZE: Don’t try to tell anybody that because they are trained to the sleeve, they will never bite a human!
If that was the case, police dogs would never bite…after all, cops would run out of training partners pretty quickly…

But in all, you said a page ago you were done with this thread.
Maybe it’s time you stick to your guns.
The hole you are digging gets deeper.
Send me a post card from China when you get there!

And good luck.
We had those dogs that people feared, because they were big with a loud bark.
Somebody ended up poisoning one of them. We never found out who, and precisely why. Unless your dogs are also trained to eat only, and ONLY what you provide, they are at risk.[/QUOTE]

To train a police dog to bite, they eventually get trained to bite someone in a full body suit wearing plain clothes. Sorry I’m not wrong. As I said, I do this for a living. You just want so bad to be right. So go ahead… I’ll keep doing what I do as it’s keeping our metro area police force supplied with dogs and they seem to be just fine!

Thank you! Have a great day.

[pheobs]

While you are correct in the differences between personal protection/police trading and Shutzhund training, the principle is the same. While teaching “protection” work from Shutzhund basics is likely safer, you are still creating and rewarding the behavior of biting a human being. While Shutzhund dogs are taught to attack the sleeve, they are going to be more likely to bite a person in a different situation just because the pattern has been established. The dog has been taught to cope with it’s prey drive by biting and holding on to what it wants to get.

Messing around with Shutzhund is dangerous and not something you should be doing with rescue dogs, or without the support of a serious professional and other club members.

There is a case in which a woman’s dog killed a child, and she was found guilty of murder because her dog was trained in Shutzhund and this was seen as irresponsible on her part to allow a dog without the proper backround to participate in the activity.

[pheobs]

Also, Shutzhund dogs are not supposed to bark indiscriminately at anything that goes past their territory.

[PassagePony]

The below is taken right from the Schutzhund Club of America. If your dogs are barking and being aggressive while people are merely walking by, then they are not what they want for their program. As for you providing those dogs to the metro area police, I call your bluff and doubt you do. They don’t take just anyone’s dog nor just any trainer either. But then again, you can say what you want on line, we can be anyone with anything and any training behind a name.

http://www.germanshepherddog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/IPO-PROTECTION-Website-Updated.pdf

IPO is designed to continually test the genetic nerves, temperament, and stability of the dog, not to make a dog ‘aggressive’. A dog with a weak temperament will often perceive a threat very quickly when no threat exists, or become very easily excited, overstimulated, and nervous. This dog cannot think as clearly, and responds fearfully and/or aggressively even when the situation does not call for it, and this is the opposite of what is desired in a dog trained for IPO protection. The IPO dog should be genetically stable, with solid nerves that have been inherited over generations from parents and grandparents and great-grandparents tested through IPO (or HGH herding).

The IPO dog remains composed under stress. Whether this stress is a
potential threat to his home or handler, or simply activities in everyday life such
as loud noises, children, or other dogs, his temperament plays a huge role in how he handles all of it and how he responds. The dogs who are most difficult to handle for their owners are those who are more fearful of everyday occurrences and are easily stressed in daily life, often responding inappropriately in stressful situations. Because strength of nerves and temperament are largely genetic, the German Shepherd Dog should be tested for nerve strength before they are bred; it is important that the people breeding them possess the knowledge of the dogs that IPO training provides.

[invinoveritas]

The dogs, both schutzhund and police training, are taught to bite the arm. Of course a protective suit is put on the person who is to be bitten. Those suits are sold by companies like Gall’s. The dogs I have seen perform, both schutzhund and police training, were all taught to go for the arm first.

But as I said before, those dogs don’t bark and snarl at everyone who walks by them. They wait for the command to attack. They are taught to go for the arm because of the presumption of an attacker being armed with a weapon, so disabling the arm/weapon is paramount. The concept is not to scare someone off by barking but to disable the attacker and hold him for the handler to confine.

But then OP is not listening to anyone on this thread. With that 4 ft fence she has, she claimed on her old thread that 2 of her dogs could jump out whenever they wanted to. OP, you do not have to “dumb it down” for anyone. We’ve all dealt with people who train dogs and are successful at it.

[RockinHorse]

Late to the party, however, it strikes me that if the OP has a legitimate reason to need a protection dog but also chooses to cultivate a pack of scary dogs people are afraid of, she is missing out on a very useful protection opportunity.

Making and maintaining good relationships with neighbors can be a valuable way to have extra eyes on the property, particularly when they are retired and home a lot. Those neighbors typically know who belongs in the neighborhood and who does not.

Alienating then will ensure they turn a blind eye if something is amiss.

[rubles]

As a dog owner for many years, many breeds some posters are so ignorant about dog behaviour it would be a joke except some take them seriously. Head hitting table.
i have no qualms about associating with fully trained personal attack dogs because I have no interest in harming their owners. These dogs attack on command. They are not vicious. Is this fact too difficult to understand. One attacks when told to, one attacks because they choose to do it. I have been around, large, protection dogs for years and found them trustworthy. One vicious dog came after me. Luckily I knew what to do. This dog was not trained, ran loose up the road from me and had already bitten people. Was he scary? Yes. VERY.

Try and learn the difference between vicious and trained dogs.
My Ridgeback was put down because of cancer. She was friendly to a fault. Loved everybody. She was a threat because she wanted to jump up and wash everyone’s face. Strangers didn’t need to know that.

Try and understand. Vicious is dangerous.

I feel for the original poster and the abuse she has been subjected to on this thread.

[pezk]

Excellent post Rubles. What many of these posters don’t understand is that there are 3 parts to Schuzhund training. All are equally important. Obedience, tracking, and bite work. You don’t get to play only in bite work unless your dog is trained in obedience and tracking. They go together. A well,trained Schuzhund dog does NOT go after anyone unless they are given the command, in German, to do so. It’s part of obedience.
Police dogs and military dogs are a different category.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Some sport dogs wouldn’t follow through without the right “picture” and target–particularly on a strong assailant who fights back. IPO is very structured and the dogs know what is coming. Just my opinion. They definitely train police dogs differently and put a different level of pressure on those dogs. Absolutely not to say that some of the sport dogs couldn’t do “real” work. Likewise, the best personal protection dog I personally have known, was NOT good at sport. The obedience picture with a good team is really impressive in IPO.

I’m glad you didn’t get a ticket. I would be worried about the neighbor who turned me in. I have heard of people doing terrible things (i.e. tainted food, etc.). Camera, or just being outside with them might be a good idea.

The VAST majority…overwhelming majority…of dog bites happen from dogs that have had no protection training. I did a lot of research on dog bites a few years ago when BSL (breed specific legislation) was proposed in my town. Statistically it is highest for unneutered males that are chained up in a yard. Lots of kids get bit by the family pet. And so on.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;8564329]

The VAST majority…overwhelming majority…of dog bites happen from dogs that have had no protection training. I did a lot of research on dog bites a few years ago when BSL (breed specific legislation) was proposed in my town. Statistically it is highest for unneutered males that are chained up in a yard. Lots of kids get bit by the family pet. And so on.[/QUOTE]

That’s like saying the vast majority fall off of non-dressage horses…or non Akhal-Tekes…
The vast majority of dogs are not trained (one way or another), nor fixed, and also sadly tied up…soooooooo?

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Meup knows a dog-sitter of you need one.

[pony_grandma]

I also voice the concern about your relationship with your neighbors. I’m sure that they catch your drift. Very easy fix for them and you’d need cameras everywhere to prove it.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=mvp;8562547]
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

And does Rolex let people (with various and sundry tastes in animals and discipline and consideration for others) bring their dogs to that event? What a bad idea.[/QUOTE]

Yes, they do allow anybody to bring in their poorly trained dog to drag it around all day. Irritating, but have to give in to the whiny masses who can’t leave their dogs at home for a day lest the dog need dog therapy.

[gumtree]

I don’t wonder over here to often the title caught my attention along with over 7000 reads and over 177 replies.

Reminded me of a small mountain town I lived in outside of Boulder Co back in the 70s. My wonderful, happy hippy days.I had nothing to do with horses for a few years and worked a lot of different jobs.

I was joyfully unemployed but my roommates were not happy with my fiscal situation. The town paper advertised the Animal Control Officer’s position was open. In other words the town’s Dog Catcher.

A couple of weeks later I saw the job was still available. Hanging out in our town’s only bar bumming beers I said was going to apply for the job.

Everyone said you don’t want that job. Everybody hates the dog catcher, it’s always available. Nobody lasts more than a couple of weeks. Only newbies to town apply for it. If you take it forget about anybody buying you beers in the future.

“Wow. I had no idea this board was full of such ignorant people”

LOL, in this forum too?

As to your question I know nothing about dog law much more about horse law. Still, it seems to be the dogs should need to be caught in the act. And or be picked out of a line up.

I’d fight it. Let us know how it works out.