Anyone have experience with the CURO machine? For diagnosing suspensory injury. (UPDATE)

[mdp9]

After my normally very sound horse came up lame on his LH over the weekend, we took a field trip to VEI with Dr Allen.

Ultimately he came up with two potential diagnoses. One is just the Horse’s hocks are sore, and he was due for hock injections anyway, so that’s been done and we are hoping that clears up the issue.

The other potential is proximal suspensory desmitis. He threw this out in our conversation as something he always considers when dealing with a lameness in the hind and said he has this CURO exam that we could do to check for this for a $135. Yes, please.

CURO machine has little sensors that went on each hind leg where the proximal suspensory ligaments are. Horse is hand walked back and forth, a trotted back and forth, and walked again while sensors send their findings to the iPad. Doc says normal score is 5 or greater. LH (the one he was lame one) has a score of 5. The RH? Score of 2. Doc checks wires to make sure they’re not crossed and that CURO is reading it right. Doc says this is a conflicting diagnosis, that we’ll go with the hock injections, wait and see if Horse improves. Doc says to come back in a few weeks regardless of how Horse is doing to re-do the CURO free of charge. I suppose Dr Allen was surprised by the conflicting results and wanted to make sure we could clear that up.

So my question to you, and the TL;DR. Has anyone else used this CURO machine?? I am really hoping to find others who had conflicting results. Basically, please tell me this thing is not accurate.

The really annoying thins is that I’m just hanging out in “wait and see” mode for the next several weeks.

[Jungle_Monkey]

I’d never heard of it so I googled…is it supposed to be used on anything other than muscles? No help to you but interesting idea…
http://www.myodynamikequine.com/curo-use/

" [h=2]CURO use & app[/h]
Please use your CURO with care and respect. You have purchased a state-of-the-art device that is extremely sensitive. Please avoid dropping the CURO, leaving it in direct sunlight or exposing it to either extreme temperatures or water. We at MyoDynamik have endeavoured to produce a robust and field useable device, but your CURO remains a very delicate scientific piece of equipment and it will serve you best if you treat it with love and respect.

A CURO unit plus sensors enables you to select and follow a horses muscles whilst physically active. You can select your own muscle groups, or take advantage of the CURO software to identify which muscles to measure from. The CURO software show you how to prepare the sensor sites, attach the sensors and start your recordings. Together with a CURO unit you will be better able to follow and direct the training of a horse, identify muscle imbalance and precisely locate muscle injuries. [h=3]Sensor positioning[/h]
It is important that you place the sensor centrally on each muscle or muscle group (see Muscle Anatomy). Ensure that the MyoDynamik Acoustic Gel is rubbed into the hair or skin thoroughly. You may need to use your nails to ensure that the gel penetrates the longer guard hairs as well as the finer hairs closer to the skin. Once you have a good gel penetration, ensure that the gel circle you have created is slightly larger in diameter than the sensor itself. Make sure that you are recording from a clear and distinct muscle, and fix the sensor in place on top of the gel using the flexible Snogg tape provided. Use the additional smaller pieces of tape to secure the sensor cables, if they remain loose they could irritate the subject or affect the AMG recording.

" [h=3]ESTi score®[/h]
The CURO system is unique in that unlike other muscle assessment systems, it measures the number of fibers active (spatial amplitude; S) and the frequency with which they contract (temporal summation; T) and the way in which the Central Nervous System (CNS) recruits and uses the active fibers in a muscle (timing/efficiency – E).

It is only by combining the timing aspect of muscle fiber contraction that one can start to assess the synchrony with which the CNS recruits active fibers in a muscle – and in so doing, more accurately determine the significance of both the spatial amplitude and frequency. [h=3]ESTi® interpretation[/h]

• [B]E – Efficiency:[/B] the E-parameter refers to the period of muscle fiber activity during a recorded period of exercise – muscle efficiency. A high score obtained during moderate to high levels of exercise is a sign of a very well trained and highly coordinated / efficient muscle movement.
• [B]S – Spatial amplitude: [/B] the S-parameter refers to the number of muscle fibers recruited during a movement, as part of exercise or a muscle contraction. A high score obtained during moderate to high levels of exercise is a sign of a very well trained and highly coordinated muscle movement.
• [B]T – Temporal summation: [/B] the T-parameter refers to the speed with which muscle fibers are activated repeatedly during a movement, as part of exercise or a muscle contraction. A high score obtained during moderate to high levels of exercise is a sign of a very well trained and highly coordinated muscle movement."

[joiedevie99]

What do the ultrasounds of the proximal suspensors look like?

[mdp9]

No ultrasound taken. That’s an excellent question, and I feel dumb for not asking why he didn’t take them.

My only guess is he described it as more of an inflammation, rather than a lesion or tear.

[mroades]

Often the other leg is the lame one from compensation for the injured one, especially with hind suspensories

[mdp9]

Update, kinda.

(also, reason doc did not ultrasound is because he wanted to see if the hock soreness was the issue first and we were coming back for the recheck anyway)

Hocks injected on a Tuesday, didn’t ride (other than a walking hack) until the following Monday to give him time after the injections. On Monday, he still felt slightly off. Pretty much only on a circle. Booked a re check for Thursday.

Thursday went to our appointment, with plans to block and ultrasound as needed. But, to my great delight he was sound! Jogging, longe on hard ground, and under saddle. We are returning to work slowly and I’m crossing my fingers like crazy that he stays sound and it doesn’t end up being a suspensory issue (still not convinced because I’m like that).

We still re-did the Curo exam since Dr Allen wanted to see what the conflicting results from last time were all about. This time the machine read a 3-4 on both hind legs. Honestly I don’t put that much stock on the exam with the big difference in results in a little over a week, and that the technology is new. I spoke to someone else who had had the Curo exam on their horses when VEI first got it, just to gather information about the machine. She said she had a range of scores on her horses, sound ones and all.

[raisethebar]

@mdp9 Glad your horse is doing better - I came back from VEI about a month ago and my horse came up with something similiar to your horse. I actually had to change up my shoeing up front because his front feet were sore on hard ground. I believe that will help his entire body overall but his proximal suspensories were sore as well. He hooked up the CURO machine as well. I just finished the 2nd round of shockwave and I feel like it has helped. My horse is in his “downtime” as it is, so I haven’t done much but can feel a difference in him. Not sure if its stemming from his front feet or hind suspensories but either way he looks and feels great.

I have a recheck in another month - I wonder what he will suggest then. I hope your horse continues on the journey to recovery! It is a long road and when you dig into these horse as much as Dr. Allen does, there is always something!!! I am willing to take the time off for my horse to put bring him back better than ever.

Did he suggest to give your horse time off for the proximal suspensories?

[halt]

@raisethebar

@mdp9 Glad your horse is doing better - I came back from VEI about a month ago and my horse came up with something similiar to your horse. I actually had to change up my shoeing up front because his front feet were sore on hard ground. I believe that will help his entire body overall but his proximal suspensories were sore as well. He hooked up the CURO machine as well. I just finished the 2nd round of shockwave and I feel like it has helped. My horse is in his “downtime” as it is, so I haven’t done much but can feel a difference in him. Not sure if its stemming from his front feet or hind suspensories but either way he looks and feels great.

I have a recheck in another month - I wonder what he will suggest then. I hope your horse continues on the journey to recovery! It is a long road and when you dig into these horse as much as Dr. Allen does, there is always something!!! I am willing to take the time off for my horse to put bring him back better than ever.

Did he suggest to give your horse time off for the proximal suspensories?

not to derail, but is this the same one with KS?

[raisethebar]

@halt The kissing spines ruled out back when he was younger with xrays but was done again last month and still no changes between the vertebrae.

We found out that he has slight boney changes along a couple of his dorsal spinal processes (deeper along the sides that my first set of xrays couldn’t find) and we did an osphos injection and fixed the feet/shoeing up front, and then the proximal suspesories we got shockwaved and he legit feels like a new horse. Not sure what our next step is but his back has transformed and is no longer sore. I haven’t worked him (not supposed to per Dr. Allen) but I did “accidentally” trot a couple steps and holy cowwwww I have a brand new horse underneath me!

I am anxious to see what he says in a month - my biggest question is what made the biggest impact. I do believe fixing the front feet is #1 in my mind followed by the osphos and then the shockwave.

[halt]

@raisethebar

@halt The kissing spines ruled out back when he was younger with xrays but was done again last month and still no changes between the vertebrae.

We found out that he has slight boney changes along a couple of his dorsal spinal processes (deeper along the sides that my first set of xrays couldn’t find) and we did an osphos injection and fixed the feet/shoeing up front, and then the proximal suspesories we got shockwaved and he legit feels like a new horse. Not sure what our next step is but his back has transformed and is no longer sore. I haven’t worked him (not supposed to per Dr. Allen) but I did “accidentally” trot a couple steps and holy cowwwww I have a brand new horse underneath me!

I am anxious to see what he says in a month - my biggest question is what made the biggest impact. I do believe fixing the front feet is #1 in my mind followed by the osphos and then the shockwave.

TY for responding - and congrats on him feeling better. i have seen sore front feet make a sore back before!

help me understand that diagnosis better – so there is bony change, what, at the base of the vertebrae, not at the dorsal/end?

[raisethebar]

@halt I just re-read my exam and it is the “dorsal articular processes” Sorry, not spinal. Spinal would be where KS is I believe. Yikes, sorry for the confusion!!!

See the second picture of this document I found, linked below… I’m actually going to print it out so I can better be familiar with the back. It is pretty much all knew to me at this point.
http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/the-lumbar-and-sacral-vertebrae/

[mdp9]

@raisethebar Glad your horse is doing better as well! Yes, with VEI you know you’ll find things wrong with your horse you didn’t even know about.

No rest prescribed, kind of the opposite actually. Since he was thinking it is either the hocks or a suspensory issue, if it’s the hocks we’ve cleared it up with the injections we’re good to go. If it’s the suspensors we’d need to do shockwave therapy and rest. But we won’t know unless he goes back to work.

Yesterday was the first day back doing some real flat work and he felt great! Still taking it day by day, the minute I feel something off we’ll go back and look more closely at the proximal suspensors.

Because I’m curious, what was your horse’s Curo score?