Anyone here an ex-hunter/jumper?

[gertie06]

Hi dressage friends! I’m popping in from hunter/jumper land. I have a most lovely 14 year old Holsteiner who has been a very successful jumper over his lifetime. However, his maintenance needs are growing pretty extensive. Both my trainer and I feel that he may need to step down if we want him to have a long, comfortable life (which I obviously do). I have no interest in jumping little jumps. I have little interest in leasing him out.

But I’ve always had some interest in dressage. Not to blow smoke, but dressage riders are amazing. I want to ride like that. I want that connection and understanding with my horses. Plus, I dream of bringing along a young horse. What could be better for any sport horse than a foundation of dressage?

Are any of you hunter/jumper ex-pats? How was the transition? Do you like dressage? Do you miss jumping? What’s the culture like? Are the shows fun? I would love any insight y’all can provide. I’m really in the early stages of considering this, and thought it would be nice to ask your perspective.

[Rerider54]

I made the transition from H/J through eventing so I had a time doing both as it were. It makes perfect sense to start a young horse in dressage even if you are calling it ‘ training’. My dressage horse still enjoys cavalletti and the occasional cross bar. I stable at a H/J barn as it it close to home and the care is great.

Do I miss jumping? Not as much as I would have thought. I feel there is so much to learn here in dressage-land. The surprising difference in the shows is that the judging can seem arbitrary, especially when it doesn’t go your way. It is closer to a hunter round in that way. Best news is that you don’t sit at the ingate forever. You get ride time and mostly it seems like shows run on time, at least the ones I have been to lately. Nothing says you can’t do both or go back if you get bored. Plus if you started a young horse and got bored at least it would have all the flat work done and be ready to go!

The trick, IMO, is to find a dressage person who wants their horse forward. Find an instructor who has the same outlook as you. For me, I do not want to be yelled at or belittled. I also want an instructor ( or trainer or coach or whatever you call that person) who looks at the horse as a partner, not a slave or piece of sporting equipment. Lots of Europeans jump their dressage horse. There is another woman at the barn I am at that is transitionsing also.

Good luck with you decision. Read the rule book, online, part of USEF.

[baymarewithflair]

Following this thread with interest… I’m also over in hunter land and contemplating a potential switch to dressage, although my switch is really more about my health issues and waning desire to jump. Although my horse is currently for sale, I’ve been thinking more and more about just keeping him and taking a crack at something new. Really interested to see what others have said about making a change and dos/don’ts in finding the right kind of trainer. Are the shows as expensive as they have gotten over in hunter land?

[MissAriel]

Well, I would guess that especially in the US there are more H/J to dressage converts than folks that started out in dressage. The differences may be in where in their riding journey they made the switch.

I got hooked on dressage as an adult re-rider after being a H/J rider for years. I love the partnership with the horse, the feel that I can influence each body part individually (on a good day) and the precision of the sport. That said, it does take some getting used to a different way of riding, sitting differently (be prepared to be really sore in places you were never sore before), and using your aids differently. I still struggle with maintaining consistent contact, although it has improved immensely. If at all possible, get some longe lessons so you can focus on your position and use of the aids.

I don’t do much showing, but two things stand out to me that are different from H/J shows - ride times and score sheets. Shows are run on schedule, and at worst maybe a few minutes off. You are judged against a standard and you receive a score for each movement, and usually a comment, especially if the score was average or low. There are also overall comments at the end and the comments are generally constructive. Although each class is pinned based on relative scores, because you have your score sheet you can “compete” against yourself and your previous scores and assess your progress even if you aren’t in the ribbons.

As far as culture, you can find all kinds of people in dressage from well-heeled folks buying the best of everything to hard-working barn rats struggling with their average horse and minimal lessons and everything in between. There are super competition-focused riders who go for all the year end awards, and riders who never, ever show. The culture at shows is also pretty variable. I am sure there are those that fit the DQ stereotype, but I have found most competitors to be supportive of each other. There are quite a few actual rules in dressage regarding tack and dress and riding the tests, so if you do compete, read the rules. They seem a bit daunting at first, but it really helps to make sure you have your bases covered. Lots of local schooling shows are more relaxed on the rules, particularly with regards to attire and are a great way to transition into dressage shows if you want to do that.

As Rerider54 said, find an instructor and barn that meshes with your goals and outlook. Personally, I can get really anxious and do waaaayyy too many things, so for me a trainer that is more low-key and helps me relax works better than someone who is going to be nagging or yelling constantly.

I have also started my own young horse, something I am not sure I would have contemplated as a H/J rider. He is now 6 and it has been an incredible journey to develop that relationship, and feel the changes in him over time. I took a lesson with a GP trainer recently and she complemented his ability to trust me, and how well we communicate.

[meghanathtf]

I recently switched from hunter land to dressage. For many reasons. First, I am almost 50 years old and I have taken years off from consistent over fences work due to my daughter’s riding (and being able to afford both of us riding). So mostly I got to hack horses. In taking that time off, I developed a lot of anxiety about jumping. Soooo how to combat anxiety, when you don’t have your own horse and you don’t have money to buy a made horse? Take lessons right? Well I hate the idea of being the 12th person that week to jump a poor lesson horse. My ethics just couldn’t abide by riding what I feel are partially lame, overused lesson horses. Horses that are for half lease are also 1) not usually super made and 2) also somewhat overused in my mind. So switching to dressage makes me feel better about the work I am doing with a particular horse. That I am helping him or her move better, use their body better, cross train them, etc. Also, I find it easier to find people who will allow you to ride their horse “dressage” rather than jumping. It’s more accessible I think. (esp if you are a decent rider). And finally, a mid level dressage horse seems to cost a lot less than a mid level hunter. Let’s say a 2nd level horse is the same as a 3 ft hunter? sort of? Well you can get any breed and any size just about to do 2nd level…even 3rd level. Draft crosses for instance. And go to rated shows and NOT be looked down upon! Try taking a drafty to HITS in the hunter ring and wait for the looks lol! (I generalize but i think you all know what I mean).
So between wanting to stay on the ground and not fly over jumps, the accessibility of finding people who will loan you a horse for dressage only riding (I am currently riding a friend’s horse FOR FREE 4 times a week, paying only for lessons and showing), and the fact that I can afford (one day) a decent dressage horse over a decent hunter, well it just all makes sense. Plus I am just better at it anyway!
Oh and the rated show we are going to at the end of May will run me less than half the cost of a hunter rated show! It’s actually going to cost me the same as a local hunter show (2 day show here in FL).
Best of luck!
PS the only thing I miss about the hunters is getting a mid air pic! But my pics of me having beautiful connection on a horse are even better!

[ChasseurSauteur]

I am right at the beginning of this journey myself - my horse told me he didn’t like the hunter career I had planned for him. I have always had an interest in dressage so decided to make the big move about six months ago. He is really thriving in his new discipline and the rigour and precision of my lessons really engages my perfectionist aspects.

A couple of things to consider: I lessoned with my now-trainer on school horses for a few months first, to get a sense of her style and approach to training; I also took a couple of lessons with other dressage trainers for comparison. I found this extremely helpful is identifying what kind of dressage instruction fits with my learning style and training approach.

I was surprised as how weak my horse was in his topline compared to other horses in my trainer’s program at similar levels. I had always been very strong on flatwork in my life as a hunter rider and considered my horse pretty fit, but we are having to work really hard to build the strength specific to more collected (or even better-balanced) work.

I have really enjoyed not having to be in “full training” - my trainer has a once-weekly lesson requirement but otherwise I can add lessons/pro-rides as I see fit. This seems to be more normal at high-quality dressage barns in my area than it is at h/j barns of a similar calibre, where if you want to show at the A-circuit level, it’s full training or bust.

I will be going to a couple of shows this summer - from my calculations, I will be saving hundreds of dollars per (A-circuit) show compared to my h/j experience as my trainer allows us to do our own care, so no need to pay a day fee from Tues/Sun; the shows are shorter, so I only pay 2-3 days’ worth of coaching fees; and they don’t do massive set-ups, so I don’t have to pay the split on 10 extra stalls! Again, this appears par for the course with other dressage barns in my area who show Gold (national) shows - it seems to be a cultural thing.

I miss jumping from time to time but my horse so clearly doesn’t - so I live with it. When I eventually sell him, I think I will aim to buy something that can do a bit of both hunters and dressage insofar as that’s possible.

PS - One of my only real negatives so far - I just can’t get on board with the black tack

Please feel free to PM me if you want to chat more!

[Wanderosa]

Sort of. I rode H/J as a child. Did my last (schooling) show at maybe 15yo. I never did anything A rated. From age 9-17 rode at a huge, mediocre riding school. There were a few European boarders who did dressage there. It caught my eye because it still wasn’t common in this area. I did a couple combined trials (again, schooling) as a teen. I can remember spending several hours w/t/c on foot in the backyard trying to memorize the test because I only got to ride 2-3x a week. The neighbors must have thought I was nuts! At that point, it was patterns, but no concept of geometry or rhythm, relaxation, and contact. I’m not sure if this was just because the barn was huge and mediocre or if US dressage in general hadn’t progressed that far yet.

Took H/J lessons through my 20’s. Was given a wonderful teenaged OTTB at 33. Ended up boarding at a barn owned by a CCI**** eventer because horse and I were decidedly misfits at the posh H/J barns in the area. My kids were babies back then and I didn’t have the time or money to compete but the eventer’s barn was very welcoming. I took my first real dressage lessons from that trainer. After my OTTB died, I rode a few horses there that were well-schooled in dressage and realized that I really enjoyed it. I went through another horseless spell during my divorce. Eventually ended up doing chores for lessons at a pure dressage barn. Took my first lesson ever in a dressage saddle (whooo!)

Now I’m at another eventing barn. The trainer had a horse coming in that didn’t like to jump but enjoyed dressage. He’s pretty much the perfect horse for what I need. A high-octane sport horse that is just mellowed enough with age to be challenging but not impossible for me to deal with. He’s competed through 4th level, loves it, and has the correct conformation to physically achieve the more advanced elements. It’s nice to be able to get glimpses of what is theoretically possible if you ride correctly. He has true extension and collection, for example. He likes a lot of contact with you and comes easily into frame. ( I have to work a lot to keep him there but the trainer and his owner have no problems doing it, so that’s me.) He still has the fitness and scope to go a bit further. I suspect he sees me as an interesting green human project now that his mom is getting her master’s and running her business.

I love dressage. As a yoga teacher and an athlete I believe the biomechanics of dressage are healthier for the horse and rider. Being able to open my hip flexors with longer stirrup length has made a huge difference in the way I ride. I do struggle with sitting back. Not sure if that’s a vestige of my H/J years or if it’s just a personal bad habit. Be prepared to be mentally exhausted. You’re planning and riding every single step. I schooled on Tuesday for 30 minutes. I sat down to eat lunch and almost fell asleep. It didn’t feel like we’d done a lot. I was focused on fixing the way I ride tracking right. We did some circles, some shoulder ins down the long sides, and a bunch of direction changes across the diagonal at a trot. I was excited that I rode several changes without doing something that caused him to come out of frame in protest! Trying to explain to my boyfriend why I was tired, “I rode in a straight line!!” was amusing.

I haven’t done any dressage shows yet so I can’t speak to the atmosphere. You do find a much larger contingent of adult amateurs in dressage barns than you do at H/J ones. . Hope that helps!

[Training_Cupid]

I switched to a primary focus on dressage about 1.5 years ago (I still hop my horse over small jumps from time to time, but just for fun.) I enjoy it tremendously, but it has been super difficult for me trying to change the way I ride. I am still not comfortable with taking up the appropriate amount of contact, and still prefer to canter in a half seat. 25 years of muscle memory is pretty hard to overcome!
I enjoy showing, but usually I trailer in alone, warm up and show, then go home. Very rarely I might have a barn mate or acquaintance at the same show, or my trainer comes to help me on occasion. Others at the shows are polite, but for the most part also just mind their own business and focus on their own ride. I don’t mind it, but if you are looking for camaraderie I personally haven’t really found it.

[meghanathtf]

@Wanderosa

Be prepared to be mentally exhausted. You’re planning and riding every single step. I schooled on Tuesday for 30 minutes. I sat down to eat lunch and almost fell asleep.

THIS!!! I work from home and after my lessons I have actually taken a NAP!!! My brain is sooooo tired!!

[Wanderosa]

@meghanathtf

THIS!!! I work from home and after my lessons I have actually taken a NAP!!! My brain is sooooo tired!!

Yup! And it’s so hard to get people who don’t ride to understand because it doesn’t look like much to the untrained eye until you hit GP level.

One other thing I’ll add is that dressage probably appeals to a certain type of horse as it appeals to a certain type of human. The gelding I lease was imported from New Zealand as a 5yo by some poor people that intended to make him into an international level eventer. Between import, purchase price, and training they sank close to $250k into him. He’s gorgeous. He’s a TB from a show jumping line but looks like a small WB. Small problem. He hated eventing. Don’t know if it was a case of too much too fast or if he just didn’t have the mind necessary for top level competion.

His mom was a professional trainer at the time and ended up getting him for $1. It took her a year of doing nothing but hacking out to bring him back around. Somehow, dressage just works for him and I wouldn’t have picked him out as a horse that would enjoy it. Maybe the constant conversation between horse and rider through bit contact reassures him. Or maybe the complexity engrosses him to the point his mind stops racing.

Coming down the diagonal line yesterday, I decided to make myself “think” the turn and start feeling how to ride the new side as we hit the center of the arena without doing anything physical until almost to the corner. To my surprise, he picked up on it immediately. So, maybe horses that like to know what you are thinking and want you to know what they’re thinking enjoy dressage?

[mmeqcenter]

Almost two years ago I switched to dressage after 16-17 years in H/J land. I’d moved to Florida and had been searching around for jumping coaches, and the only ones I could find that would travel (I don’t presently have a trailer) were eventers charging absurd prices ($115-150 per lesson! Haven’t even gone Intermediate!). I figured, since my mare was coming out of 4 months rest for a pasture injury, I’d look for a dressage trainer instead. I’d taken a handful of dressage lessons over the years in Ohio. I found an amazing trainer, who informed me my horse is far more suited to dressage than jumping :lol: (she was really great over fences though!), and I’ve been having a ton of fun. I’m not totally writing off jumping for the rest of my life, but probably won’t do any jumping again with this mare. I had an awesome experienced jumper gelding in on consignment last year so I got to do some jumping around again, that was fun. While I’m still confident jumping at home, apparently all my time off from showing (finances, college, training greenies, etc.) created some monstrous anxiety about showing. I popped him in a 1.00m class while I had the ride just for fun, thinking it’d be NBD - he’d shown through 1.15m but was coming back into work after nine months off. Wow I had a complete internal mental breakdown.
Also, I find I have far less joint pain riding dressage than jumpers, not just while riding but day-to-day as well.

[baymarewithflair]

@mmeqcenter

Also, I find I have far less joint pain riding dressage than jumpers, not just while riding but day-to-day as well.

This is part of what is driving me to consider a change. I have bone spurs in both SI joints. I realize that riding in general is probably not great for anyone’s back, but would imagine that jumping adds extra stress.

[gertie06]

@baymarewithflair

This is part of what is driving me to consider a change. I have bone spurs in both SI joints. I realize that riding in general is probably not great for anyone’s back, but would imagine that jumping adds extra stress.

I’m not so sure. In h/j, we sit so light and forward in the saddle. When jumping, it should have very little impact on your back at all (you’re physically out of the tack). In dressage, they’re constantly in a deep, full seat. I watch their backs at the sitting trot and wonder how it’s even humanly possible. I’m just not certain dressage will be gentler on your back. Of course, it also depends on your horse’s gaits…

[Cat_Tap]

At first when I started dressage it was very frustrating. Some of the problem was that the dressage saddle I was using didn’t really fit me and I was fighting my position most of the time. I also began to realize how much I didn’t know even after doing the jumpers, then hunter and fox hunting. Eventually when I began to understand the concept a bit better and I purchased a saddle fit to me and my horse I started to enjoy it.I even went to a schooling show and did very well. I was relaxed as I did not know any of the competitors and had nothing to prove riding my hunter.

Now years later, the thrill of jumping far in my past it seems there is so much to work on when riding alone most of the time. That wasn’t possible when I was jumping where you should have a ground person.

In order to increase my core strength, learn to isolate different parts of my body, improve balance etc. I started to take a lot of fitness classes such as pilates, cardio and weight training which has helped my riding immensely and also life in general.

I am 74 now but probably in better shape than when I was much younger mainly because I switched to dressage.

[MsM]

I was a H/J washout. I never had the training, talent, horses, or temperament to excel in that discipline. And it would frustrate me when I would go to a schooling show, stay for hours and hours for my classes, and then get very little feedback on what needed to improve (other than knowing when we got a bad spot to a fence!)

Dressage appealed to my more cerebral side. Once I got the feeling of getting a horse truly connected I was hooked! It did so much for my horse and my riding. There were tests at levels that you knew ahead of time! You got times to ride and a sheet that spelled out what you did well and not. Awesome for someone not in full training. And later, as I got away from showing, there was plenty to work on and accomplish every day.

The first horse I owned that I trained in dressage also liked to jump. When he was particularly good some days with a dressage movement, I would reward him by popping over some jumps! My next horse didnt care for jumping, so he got his crosstraining from trail riding.

[Samantha37]

I started riding as a 10 year old at a HJ barn, but I didn’t do any showing. I rode that way for about 5 years, before deciding to start eventing when I had my own horse, kept at a private barn. I didn’t end up actually eventing myself until one of my current horses due to other factors, but I did event for 4-5 years.

I met a woman who has turned out to be one of my best friends and she is an FEI dressage rider. I rode with her trainer some, who I LOVED and ended up wanting to ride dressage full time. Once I sat on my friend’s PSG horse, I was absolutely hooked. The fact that you can control every little tiny movement is amazing to me. Now, I could never go back.

I do miss XC a bit, but SJ used to make me so nervous I would get sick, so I don’t miss that.

[jonem004]

I grew up eventing/pony club. Did some pony hunters. Was a working student at a dressage barn. Taught lessons at an eventing barn. Got a job flatting jumpers at the highest level. Now I’m an amateur again, consider myself a dressage rider, and have a project horse I show in the 3ft A/O’s.

Dressage is just riding until you hit the FEI level. Some of the best “dressage” training I’ve had was on those jumpers. Of course, a dressage saddle is WAY easier to sit a big trot in.

I say do it! You will never regret being really good at flatting a horse. It’s the best source of equestrian street-cred there is.

[Wanderosa]

@gertie06

I’m not so sure. In h/j, we sit so light and forward in the saddle. When jumping, it should have very little impact on your back at all (you’re physically out of the tack). In dressage, they’re constantly in a deep, full seat. I watch their backs at the sitting trot and wonder how it’s even humanly possible. I’m just not certain dressage will be gentler on your back. Of course, it also depends on your horse’s gaits…

It’s really more the closed angle of your hip flexors in hunter that causes back issues. Especially hunter eq, where the current trend seems to be to stick your butt out and sack into your ankle joint. This creates a posterior tilt in your pelvic structure and cuts off the big muscles in the back and shoulders. Because those muscles can’t work correctly, the load falls to the arms and weak front shoulders and the quads. Most people don’t put in anywhere near enough strength and mobility training to be able to keep the work of the upper body in the big muscles of the back and not the arms and front shoulder. I know quite a few hunters with chronic knee issues. Knees are usually symptomatic of shoulder and back issues.’

In dressage, you have a nice open angle to the hip flexor, a neutral or very slightly anterior pelvic tilt, and an upper body position that is at or a little behind the vertical. This is virtually identical to the correct alignment for weight lifting. The heels are below the toes but not cranked down. (I see teenagers riding hunters that have very flexible ankles and can push their heels down to an extreme angle. What they’re doing is sacking into/going around the joint, though. And that’s going to cause joint problems down the road. ) Dressage heels are achieved by lifting the toes or thinking of stepping down through the foot. When it all goes right, you’re freeing up your horse’s forehand in the most fantastic way so he can swing under and out with relaxation and power. You’re sending the horse out in front of you without being behind the motion.

If you really think about it, race jockeys and pure show jumpers have a lot in common positionally with dressage riders.

[billiebob]

I am doing primarily dressage with my TB now. In a real dressage saddle, no less! I’m not a super brave rider over fences, never have been, but I love rides that are very technical. Dressage is appealing to me because it’s just so dang hard but not scary. And my horse really truly loves it. Gotta love those worker bee TBs, even though I can’t school the same exercises more than two or three times in a row without him doing it on his own lol.

The transition has been equal parts easy and frustrating. Finding a saddle was THE WORST and I still don’t have it quite right. I am constantly battling to keep my thigh more vertical, which is complicated by having long legs and a slab-sided horse. I can’t quite sit a medium trot without loosing suppleness yet. Also rated shows are a 4+ hour drive so I don’t really bother with them. Which is a bit of a shame since I would kind of like to get my bronze medal, especially on my horse that I’ve trained 90% on my own.

The easy parts: the dressage community around me is quite supportive and friendly. There are several trainers that come to my area monthly that I really enjoy riding with when I can afford lessons and are happy to give advice when I can’t. Having a well-schooled horse to ride is so much fun – I’ve just started riding a young WB in addition to my TB and it really highlights just how far the TB and I have come along. Dressage also actually makes my back LESS sore and it’s an easy way to strengthen my core to keep my back happy. Plus…you get to buy new tack and there’s sparkles and glitter!

I still jump on a semi-regular basis and plan to continue to do so for the foreseeable future. I’m not the type of person who can stick to one discipline.

[Wanderosa]

Billiebob brings up a good point. It doesn’t have to be an either or proposition with jumping. The German instructor certification system requires proficiency in both dressage and jumping. My current trainer is an eventer. She gives the best dressage lessons. I thought it was a testament to her skill that I heard many of the same concepts from the UL german dressage trainer I rode in a clinic with recently. The trainer lessons with one of the best showjumpers in the US. He’s a big advocate of dressage flatwork. Eric Lamaze’s stallion Rio Grande was an accomplished dressage horse before making the switch. Rhythm and relaxation are key to good jumping.