Very long story short, my 10 year old Holsteiner has moved up in work and was losing weight so instead of adding more grain, I added some nice alfalfa. 3 big flakes a day for the past 10 days. It worked. He gained weight, was more energetic until I took him to a show this weekend and he lost his mind! Absolutely lost his mind. If you want the gory details, it;'s on the eventing forum under Catalpa 2021. I am hoping it is an easy fix like taking him off the alfalfa. Anyone elses horse lose their mind?
Of the common feedstuffs that are most likely to have sensitivities to outright allergies, alfalfa is one of them.
It’s easy enough to take the alf away and see if he returns to normal. There are ways to increase calories without alfalfa, but we’d need the rest of the diet to know what to suggest (if you don’t already have a plan)
That said, I would have expected some mind-losing moments well before 3 weeks. I’ll go see your other thread and see what happened.
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If they get more energy it amps up whatever issues exist. If he bucks a little, more energy makes him buck more.
I want the magic feed that makes my horse reliably hot. Alfalfa may contribute to impactiin colic in her. Oats no consistent change.
Currently he is on 4 pounds Nutena Perform, 1 pound Nutrena ration balancer, 1 pound of soy bean meal ( new addition for protein but is supposed to be cool calories) a mash made of about 1 pound beet pulp and a full scoop of alfalfa cubes soaked and his supps go in this, free choice hay. The Perform just got upped from 2 pounds. We have had spring grass here for over 2 months due to rain and some cooler temps so he got a bit fat but then the grass died back a bit along with the addition of gallop sets as we moved up to novice and it all fell apart when I added alfalfa. He was losing weight and getting more tired so I felt his diet wasn’t keeping up with his work load.
I had one that couldn’t deal with much alfalfa. When the BO got in some really nice hay that had way more alfalfa than usual we were all happy. My horse started being a bit hot, so we took him off grain and just gave him a vit/min supplement. It should have provided fewer Calories than his previous grain and lower-quality hay diet. His energy soon became useless ADHD type hyperactivity. He was jumpy and reactive and it was very hard to channel that energy into anything useful. I ended up buying him some nice grass hay and my sensible guy returned within a couple of weeks.
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That’s what he is doing. Reactive, OMG what’s that?? turn and run back to the barn.
I saw your other thread - what you described is truly terrifying - glad you and Huntington are okay.
Alfalfa is in many modern grains so most horses are already getting it in some form or another - if he had a sensitivity to it I’d expect it’d have shown by now. I’m with JB I’d expect some mind-melty behavior well before the three week mark, though it is not necessarily out of the realm of possibility.
I haven’t had a horse handle alfalfa poorly. I’ve had such good luck with it that it’s a staple in my feed program, and all of our horses are on it in some form or another. But I recognize that is just my experience, and maybe not someone else’s.
I have a good mix of horses - some are hot and sensitive and others aren’t. I have a few that I’d expect would be considered “hot” in a lesson program, but none that are really hot hot… I haven’t seen a change for the worse in any that have come through my program behavior wise.
If it were me, I’d sooner suspect the soy - which I have had horses lose their mind over - or a physical issue, before alfalfa.
Did he lose turnout access with all the awful rain? You mentioned he was being especially barn bound - if he lost turnout time or didn’t have much time trucking out they can be awfully sticky to leave the startbox their first couple of outings of the season… That and if there’s a physical issue it’s usually one of the first non-lameness related symptoms.
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What @beowulf said
I’ve even given many “hot” horses and not-hot horses 24/7 100% alfalfa hay with zero changes in behavior.
ETA - read your post, holy crap, glad you’re both okay!
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Yes. I have had a horse become hyper reactive after adding alfalfa to his diet. He also became skin sensitive. Both went away upon removal of the alfalfa.
My gelding went batshit crazy when my boarding barn converted him to halter horse alfalfa (neon green %125 alfalfa). Like I couldn’t get a halter on in a stall and if you did get him out of the stall you couldn’t get near enough to get on.
On a random note I had a mare of mine get into a pear tree. Same thing, couldn’t get near her. Removed her from the pear tree field and she was back to normal in 48 hours. I could also tell in 48 hours if my old barn owner put her on corn or anything with corn.
I feed alfalfa exclusively in the barn. Mine all seem to have their wits about them, even when on total stall rest.
I’ve never had a horse lose their mind on alfalfa, but if you recently added soy bean meal as well - I’d cut that first.
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I’m so sad about the soy bean meal! I did not read anything that would implicate that. Until now. I am seeing some report that so I will nix both. I had a vet friend recommend Purina Super Sport.
The feeds you’re already feeding both contain soy.
could it be that another 1lb of straight SBM did him in? Possibly, but what was the timing? If much closer to the Event, then I’d blame that long before the alfalfa. If weeks ago, then the same - would not expect it to take this long to unglue him.
TBH I would keep the diet as-is for now and assess his behavior on a daily basis. Sometimes horses just lose their sh!t at an event that doesn’t normally faze them. Maybe there was a pokey-sticky thing under his saddle pad. Maybe something just got him off to a weird start.
If you remove the alf, it’s going to be really hard to say that’s what it was, if you can’t duplicate the show experience, and even if you were to remove it and go to another Event next weekend, and he’s fine, that doesn’t mean it was the alfalfa.
I say let things ride and evaluate his behavior daily.
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About 3 years ago my normally very sane gelding went through a phase where he wanted to bolt every time I rode him. In fact, that was the topic of my very first post on COTH forums (Hot horse, but with a twist ). This horse always had energy, but I had always been able to settle him. I couldn’t figure out what had suddenly caused him to act like he had a rocket up his butt. Then I remembered that the excess energy seemed to coincide with when I started giving him one soaked alfalfa cube with his forage balancer. I discontinued the alfalfa and sent him to a trainer for a tune-up. When he came back home, I had my sane gelding again. He still has energy, but it’s obedient energy. I can feel when he wants to go faster, but his ears are pointed back at me, waiting for my signal. I’ll never know whether the alfalfa caused him to lose his mind, but I’m suspicious of it, and I’ll never give him any more of it.
The alfalfa was started 10 days ago the soy bean meal 4 days ago.
I’ve heard that soy can make some horses nuts and saw an example with a friend’s horse. They started to use some sort of calming supplement when the horse got silly. It got sillier and they used more. Turned out the horse was sensitive to soy which was in the calming supplement. The horse was also on a soy-based hoof supplement.
I had a horse who became a more solid citizen when I replaced alfalfa with timothy, but the timothy was apparently like eating rice cakes for him and he lost weight. Current horse got taken off alfalfa due to allergies and I really didn’t notice much change. We’re all different.
Maybe try CoolStance.
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I’m sure it’s possible that the alfalfa made him a bit more up! Maybe the soy like others mentioned. Perhaps the limited turnout too? I recall you staying horse was coming in at noon due to heat for a while? And that you’ve been working on his fitness? Maybe a perfect storm of all the above?
I’m so glad you aren’t injured from your crash and that your horse is ok too!
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Yes!
I had a Holsteiner gelding (2007 Camiros x Alcatraz) who was wickedly allergic to alfalfa. Turned him into a spooky, unfocused, stallion-esque mess of a horse! This was a seriously dull, quiet type, who I owned from 11 months of age on. And I think the alfalfa allergy grew over time. I always feed mine a flake of alfalfa a day on top of their free choice timothy when I want them to gain a little weight. And probably for him it really became apparent when he was 5 or 6 and we were going to a lot of shows. A good sign would have been when my VERY-much-a-gelding horse started trying to mount the mares he lived with, and at a stopover point on the way down to a CA show busted through the fence in his pen to situate himself with the pony mare he was hauling with.
Frustratingly, I put him on SmartCalm before I figured out the how intense his allergy was, and that sent him right back into it because it was made on an alfalfa base (as is almost every treat out there).
When I cut alfalfa out of his diet completely (and I mean completely…not even an errant treat), he returned to his quiet, docile self.
Sadly, the person I sold him to did not listen and I got a call a year of two after selling him basically asking “WTF?!” when they explained that he had bucked people off and was super inconsistent. When I explained the alfalfa allergy (which I had written about extensively in the paperwork I sent with him, and explained over and over again to both the buyer and her at-the-time trainer) they totally dismissed it as ridiculous. They then changed his USEF name, stripped away his record, and dumped him at a big discount from what they had bought him for.
I tracked down the next owner and explained it all to him all over again. And then tracked down the person he sold the horse to so that I could explain it again.
People very seriously do not believe that a horse can have such a major reaction to alfalfa. But holy hell my guy did!
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I fed alfalfa to many horses for many decades… as hay or as a part of grain ration. Never had a problem. But now I have two mares (both TB mares, sired by my TB stallion) who can’t eat alfalfa without negative effects. And it took me a long time to figure it out. But it’s not ONLY alfalfa, it’s “protein” in general, of which alfalfa is often (but not always) the culprit. Higher protein concentrates in grain ration from other sources also brings on the problem in both mares. Both mares get “gut pain”, but it manifests differently in each of them. One colics. The other, shows the signs of what is often seen in ulcer cases… gut pain. Touchy in girth area, belly area, being groomed, my leg on her side, being ridden in general. Was being called a “sea monster” during her rides. Wanting to buck while being ridden. Pulled ears together while being ridden. Miserable. And the change in her was huge, because she was always the easiest and quietest horse to ride and handle and train, superstar easy and quiet. When I figured out that it was the SAME issue but showing different symptoms in each horse, I switched them both onto grass hay, and LOW protein grain ration, and both are “fixed” now. No vet quizzed had any idea of what might be the problem with either of these mares, it had to be owner’s “trial and error” to fix this. So yes, alfalfa can be an issue for some horses. But look for protein sources in other feed as well, not JUST alfalfa. For grain ration, I use beet pulp, a small amount (1/4 lb?) of high fat low protein extruded kibble (mostly just for taste), and a mineral mix. They both stay healthy and happy on this.
The joke here is that our farm grows the most fantastic alfalfa/grass hay, just like candy, top quality, but fairly high protein. Hay so nice that I need use no grain at all for most horses, and just supply trace mineral plus selenium salt block. And for these two mares, I cut and bale several acres of “meadow grass” hay that is locally considered to be “crap” hay… garbage fields, unseeded - just grows native grasses, a bit of timothy, orchard etc, along with a variety of marsh grasses. But very valuable to me. And to them.
Strangely enough, these two mares are OK grazing our alfalfa fields in winter, once the alfalfa is yellow. No problem with that for either of them. But the hay is cut at the height of the season, and that makes the difference. Lower protein once the plants are dead I guess. This was the clue that I was given to solve this problem.
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Yes. I had one that did not tolerate alfalfa. He was normally a very easy-going, tolerant gelding. When alfalfa was added to his diet, he was a spooky, reactive, anxious mess. Take it out of his diet, right back to his normal laid back, easy-going self.
Many people don’t believe that alfalfa can cause this reaction. Once you’ve seen it for yourself, you know.
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