APHA folks - I have a pedigree question for ya!

[QUOTE=TaliaCristianna;3893263]
Skip N To The Drum is listed with APHA as being HYPP Negative.

That would make it impossible for the OP’s gelding to be an HYPP carrier.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know that there’s much truth to that. From what I remember all Impressive bred horses are tested. I could be wrong, someone correct me if I am.
However, me, MYSELF, and I would get the horse tested just seeing that name in it’s pedigree…but that’s me, I would rather be safe than sorry in all aspects.

ETA: Yup, go here:
http://www.bringinglighttohypp.org/

Not entirely sure about APHA, but with the AQHA testing is mandatory.

After reading through entirely the APHA does not require the testing so it would be best for the OP to inform the owner of this horse to have him tested.

[QUOTE=jse;3893824]
I don’t know that there’s much truth to that. From what I remember all Impressive bred horses are tested. I could be wrong, someone correct me if I am.
However, me, MYSELF, and I would get the horse tested just seeing that name in it’s pedigree…but that’s me, I would rather be safe than sorry in all aspects.[/QUOTE]

It is absolutely impossible for an HYPP negative horse to sire/foal HYPP positive get (when bred to another negative horse). HYPP DOES NOT under any circumstances skip a generation.

AQHA does not require that the get of two HYPP negative parents be tested regardless of how many times they trace back to Impressive.

From the AQHA 2009 Handbook:

Mandatory testing for HYPP.
At such time as AQHA requires mandatory parentage verification of any foals to be registered in either the numbered or appendix registry, (see 202(i)) any foal tracing
to bloodlines known to carry the HYPP gene shall be tested for HYPP at the time the genetic testing for parentage is performed. The results will be designated on the registration certificate in lieu of the
above notification. Such testing will not be necessary if the foal’s closest ancestors, tracing to the HYPP line, have been tested negative and designated on their registration certificates, these foals will automatically be designated “N/N” on their registration certificate.

AQHA only requires testing as of '07 or thereabouts. So, that leaves generations without any HYPP status on their papers.

[quote=SilverSpringFarm;3894154]It is absolutely impossible for an HYPP negative horse to sire/foal HYPP positive get. HYPP DOES NOT under any circumstances skip a generation.
[/quote]

Just to clarify - a N/N horse cannot be the cause of HYPP, but N/N x ?/H has at least a 50/50 chance of producing a N/H horse.

[QUOTE=JB;3894165]

Just to clarify - a N/N horse cannot be the cause of HYPP, but N/N x ?/H has at least a 50/50 chance of producing a N/H horse.[/QUOTE]

Yes, of course.

An HYPP positive horse has to have at least one positive parent.

[QUOTE=JB;3894165]
AQHA only requires testing as of '07 or thereabouts. So, that leaves generations without any HYPP status on their papers.

Just to clarify - a N/N horse cannot be the cause of HYPP, but N/N x ?/H has at least a 50/50 chance of producing a N/H horse.[/QUOTE]

Ah! Ok, cool. Ya learn something new every day!

Dang…I knew there was a reason I was a TB fan…LOL…That’s enough to make my brain hurt!

That IS really interesting stuff though!

I’ll try and get some decent pics and more video this weekend…I just fall in love with this boy more and more every day.

Great mix of halter blood, running quarter horse and working cowhorse blood. This guy should be able to do anything you want with him and have the mind for it. As far as HYPP have no fear his grand father is N/N his great grand father was N/H and also a world champion but did not pass it on to his son. If you click on these horses names on your pedigree query it will show there pedigrees and give you info icons and picture icons so you can see there acomplisments hypp status and other info.

That explains why my horse doesn’t like to stop or stand still. :slight_smile: He was bred to race and that’s evident. I love him in all other aspects though and I can get him to stop… eventually. He’s a Go Man Go great great grandson on the sire’s side, GMG is also on his damsire’s side, along w/ Three Bars and he’s got Three Bars on the bottom, as well as Leo and Joe Hancock.

I LOVE my GMG, TB boy.

Can’t go wrong w/ Sonny Dee Bar either. And of course my paint mare has Three Bars way back. She also has SDB top and bottom along w/ other popular names more close up like Lucky Sonny Dee (SDB grandson), Scenic Jetalito (4th), Buck McCue/Kingfisher (4th/5th), Mr. Norfleet (4th) and Mark IV/SDB (4th/5th.) And she is a SAINT and a half. Sounds a lot like this boy. She didn’t get very big (bought her as a yearling), but she makes up for lack of size in the heart and brain department. Nothing phases her at all.

As much as I love my drafts, you can’t go wrong w/ a good stock horse, paint or quarter.

Where does HYPP trace from

Absolutely correct but I might add - According to UCDavis - all cases of HYPP have been confirmed and traced to Impressive. A paragraph from a very good article from them states:
https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/hypp.php

“This genetic defect has been identified in descendents of the American Quarter Horse sire, Impressive. The original genetic defect causing HYPP was a natural mutation that occurred as part of the evolutionary process. The majority of such mutations, which are constantly occurring, are not compatible with survival. However, the genetic mutation causing HYPP produced a functional, yet altered, sodium ion channel. This gene mutation is not a product of inbreeding. The gene mutation causing HYPP inadvertently became widespread when breeders sought to produce horses with heavy musculature. To date, confirmed cases of HYPP have been restricted to descendants of this horse.”

You should check with your vet for both breeding protocols AND feeding and maintenance procedures. These horses required low potassium diets, to stay well hydrated, etc. to prevent seizures. It can be as mild as an eye blink to a full blown seizure with muscle weakness. it can happen at any age, they don’t grow out of it, and it isn’t diluted out by generations. You want to have all possible horses tested…a seizure that happens with your 8 year old going down the trail or over a fence isn’t a pretty picture especially if you had no idea of potential issues. The disease can be maintained by diet and medication but there is still the unpredictability as to when and where. If you are well informed and aware, you will know to put yourself and the horse in a safe environment. A statement from America Association of Equine Practioneers - "Should an HYPP-positive horse be ridden?

According to Dr. Spier’s studies, the chance of a paralysis episode occurring while the horse is being ridden is unlikely. However, muscle spasms are unpredictable and can occur with only slight symptoms. Therefore, it is recommended that only experienced horsemen (those aware of symptoms and familiar with the horse’s behavior) handle and ride affected horses.Affected horses are not suitable for young riders.Contact a veterinarian immediately if any abnormal clinical signs are observed.". A good article that includes some basic feeding info also: http://www.aaep.org/info/horse-health?publication=738

The three registries need to take a much stronger position even though AQHA is doing the better job. (Quarter horse, paint and Appaloosa) but there are the multitude of non- registered western speed horses that might have the Impressive bloodlines or even your hunters or other pleasure horses. Due to the serious situation which could possibly happen in a seizure - I think there should be some legal aspect to protect unsuspecting buyers and breeders and not accept for registration even those with 50% chance of passing the gene. This has been known since early 1990s and these horses should have been eliminated from the breeding pool by now. However, you can flip through the pages of stallion ads and still find positive horses and yes I realize how beautiful and athletic the line is/was but the welfare of a rider and horse is more important. You can’t eliminate the disease and the potential fraud put on unknowing buyers if you keep allowing the breeding of positive horses whether full or 50%. These horses should only be sold with full transparency and explaination of issues whether being sold registered or non registered. Many folks don’t care about papers for use to breed pleasure horses or for events that don’t require the animal be registered in order to compete, i.e., barrel, roping, pole bending, hunters, dressage, driving, etc or any non rated shows. Even those who say they don’t expect to breed need to know and should make sure info is passed on if they sell plus they need to know in order to properly maintain the horse.

If you are thinking of buying a horse (or have already bought) with any possible chance of being positive - call AQHA and give them the names and reg. Numbers from the papers to see if any testing has been done. To be really safe and what I would do - send a hair sample for DNA testing. If you are breeding, have the other serious genetic diseases tested also like HERDA/C (from Poco Bueno line). The cost for HYPP is $40 and goes to UCDavis - see website and article below.

Another excellent article mentioned in this thread is: http://www.bringinglighttohypp.org/9-inherited-equine-health/24-bringing-light-to-hypp-the-acceptable-disease

Also AQHA did a media piece - 20 pages that is from 90s but has a lot of good info on testing, studies, breeding results etc. https://www.aqha.com/media/3110/aqha_hypp_brochure_sm.pdf

A good article is at along with price list. https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/hypp.php.

HYPP Not Diluted or Skipped by Generations

Just as a correction…per UC Davis and AQHA, HYPP is not diluted. Whether one generation or 10 - it is the same. Here is statement by UCDavis: "Inheritance and Transmission of HYPP
HYPP is inherited as an autosomal dominant trait, which means it can occur in both males and females and only one copy of the gene is required to produce the disease. The trait is inherited from generation to generation with equal frequency; it does not get “diluted” out or skip generations. Breeding an affected heterozygous horse (N/H) to an affected heterozygous horse (N/H) will result in approximately 50% carrying the defective gene (N/H), approximately 25% will be normal (N/N) and approximately 25% will be homozygous carriers (H/H). Breeding an affected heterozygous horse (N/H) to a normal horse (N/N) will result in approximately 50% normal offspring and approximately 50% carrying the defective gene (N/H)."See their full article: https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/hypp.php

Symptoms and Signs of the Disease

Homozygous horses are affected more severely than heterozygous horses. Under ideal management practices, the defective gene does not appear to have adverse effects, but stress and/or increased potassium in the serum can trigger clinical signs of muscle dysfunction. Why some horses manifest severe signs of the disease and other exhibit little or no signs is unknown and currently under investigation. Unfortunately, a horse carrying the defective gene but showing minimal signs has the same chance of passing the gene to future generations as does the affected horse with severe signs.

HYPP is characterized by sporadic attacks of muscle tremors (shaking or trembling), weakness and/or collapse. Attacks can also be accompanied by loud breathing noises resulting from paralysis of the muscles of the upper airway. Occasionally, sudden death can occur following a severe paralytic attack, presumably from heart failure or respiratory muscle paralysis.

Attacks of HYPP can take various forms and commonly have been confused with other conditions. Because of the muscle tremors and weakness, HYPP often resembles exertional rhabdomyolysis (“tying-up” syndrome). “Tying-up” syndrome can be caused by many different circumstances, including exercising a horse beyond the capacity to which it has been trained, as well as nutritional deficiencies and metabolic diseases. A distinguishing feature of HYPP from “tying-up” syndrome is that horses usually appear normal following an attack of HYPP. Horses with “tying-up” syndrome, on the other hand, tend to have a stiff gait and painful, firm muscles of the hind limbs, rump and/or back. “Tying-up” syndrome is also generally associated with some type of exercise. HYPP, by contrast, is not usually associated with exercise, but occurs when horses are at rest, at feeding time, or following a stressful event such as transport, feed changes, or concurrent illness.

Because a horse may be down and reluctant or unable to stand during an HYPP attack, many owners have thought their horses were experiencing colic. HYPP has also been confused with seizures due to the pronounced muscle trembling and collapse. Unlike seizures and other conditions that cause fainting, horses with HYPP are conscious and aware of their surroundings during an attack and do not appear to be in pain. Respiratory conditions and choking have also been confused with HYPP because some horses make loud breathing noises during an attack.

Barklink blood seems to be coveted by the APHA world too.

http://www.barlink.com/