Has anyone else seen this foal advertised from an upcoming Flanders Foal Auction? The foal appears to have what I would consider an Appaloosa-type blanket on its hind quarters. Its pedigree is J-Nius VVZ / Cicero Z van Paemel / Chacco Blue
Any colour experts know where these marking would come from? and what would they be called in a warmblood?
Well, there are Knabstruppe WB with the appaloosa gene.
Whether there’s anything in his lineage that points this way, I don’t know.
J-Nius VVZ’s has a Leopard pattern, and his sire is also leopard
https://angloeuropeanstudbook.hr/database/056015z55279019-j-nius-v-v-z
The foal will be called whatever his registry is, but I don’t know how they list appaloosa patterns.
Well, the sire shows as Grey in the database link. 
It wouldn’t surprise me if the foal just has LP (Leopard Complex) and varnishes. All the flashy ones seem to.
J-Nius is a Zangersheide-registered stallion by Little Indian, who is a spotted AES-registered stallion by a Quick Star son. Little Indian’s dam Charlene is listed by HorseTelex as Appaloosa. According to Horse Telex, both J-Nius and his sire Little Indian are listed with their respective registries as “skewbald or piebald.” I assume the foal will also be listed that way.
Also, there doesn’t appear to be any Knapstrupper in the foal’s pedigree, so the spots came from the Appaloosa mare Charlene.
Grey even with all those spots?! I guess I shouldn’t be surprised given that its only recently that palomino and buckskin are being named properly.
@DownYonder thanks for digging into the pedigree. Interesting that Zangersheide allowed in an appaloosa!
Thanks JB! Don’t know why I did didn’t just google the sire myself lol
That is the most dappled gray I have ever seen! #notgray
his dam is heterozygous gray. He isn’t gray.
You can’t have just LP and have it produce spots. PATN is what creates a pattern, LP allows it to express. LP causes varnishing. So any pattern has at least 1 LP and at least 1 PATN, whether it’s PATN1, or any other as-yet-unidentified PATN.
Gray foals don’t start as gray, the start as their base color, with all white patterns showing.
app in color. Charlene is by a KWPN and out of an ISH, but both are listed as “skew or pie bald” so I don’t know who has the LP/PATN genetics
https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/1771318/charlene
as above, the foal COULD be going gray and still have the blanket visible. But he’s not gray
Yeah, it’s interesting that Charlene’s ISH dam is listed as skew or pie bald. Her pedigree looks to be ISH, RID, and TB, but that gene came in from somewhere.
And also interesting that Charlene was listed as Appaloosa. It appears that she was born in Germany, and I guess whoever registered her didn’t know what color to call her other than Appaloosa. ???
And it is totally weird that the AES database lists J-Nius as grey. Also of note is that the AES database shows his sire as Just in Time by Startrek out of Charlene. The registration number for Just in Time is the same as for Little Indian, so I guess one name was his registered name and the other name was his show name.
the problem with appy genetics and patterns is that there are overlapping phenotypes with regard to the underlying genotype. Most people describe them by their phenotype which, unfortunately, doesn’t tell you anything about the genotype. The purists describe them by the genotype, and then also describe the phenotype.
I didn’t say the sire was grey. I said he was entered as grey in the database that was linked. He (the sire) is obviously a leopard, I didn’t think that needed to be mentioned, but guess I was wrong. ETA Unless the sire greyed later in life, It’s possible he had LP/PATN and Grey.
Obviously the sire has PATN as well, but the foal in the OP might not and from what I’ve seen, foals like that tend to varnish.
Unless he inherited the grey that wasn’t obvious in the picture giving them an easy out on the colour description, hell no! Who knows what a registry will do though! 
The older registries or ones based in other languages and nomenclatures can give out names that do not align with genetics.
There are grey TB registered as roan which isn’t a known TB color.
Piebalds and skewbalds are black or other color Tobiano in the Paint registry.
The Paint registry differentiates between chestnut and sorrel.
The Norwegians call the light drulla dun Fjord horse a word that translates to “grey.” I recently learned the British word “blagdon” to describe the splash pinto pattern on a Clydesdale.
Its quite possible the European registries at the time (or now) had no option or even language for Leopard Spotted Appaloosa.
The regional and historical variations in naming horse colors is a lot of fun to learn, but the genetic tests rule!
I think there was some confusion around “he” and “sire” LOL Yes, it’s weird the sire of the OP foal is listed as gray - that has to be a typo, or a phenotype thing, because there’s no gray in his immediate pedigree, so he can’t be gray
yes, 3 different alleles, so all can coexist. But J-Nuis isn’t gray.
The foal has to have some PATN as well as LP, or he wouldn’t have that small blanket.
PATN on its own doesn’t do anything.
LP on its own only cause varnishing, and can produce some characteristics like the white scelera, skin mottling, and stripped hooves, but can’t produce any white pattern
It takes LP/? + PATN/? to cause white spotting
That said, LP on its own can cause varnishing to start in a way that starts looking like some few-spot pattern, but not in a young foal, and the small blanket on this foal is obvious spotting, rather than varnishing
Yes they’re the same horse, I looked at a 3 year old (another spotty!) by him a couple of years ago and recognised the name.
https://www.coudelariamc.com/just-in-time#:~:text=Just%20in%20Time%20aka%20Little,50m!
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