Posting here as there seems to be AQHA people present in this forum. Please no flames. Just asking how the style for AQHA Hunter Under Saddle came about.
I am used to seeing Hunter Under Saddle but as it is ridden at shows such as Vermont Summer Festival - those hunter classes seem to be traditional Hunter under saddle.
AQHA looks a little different as the rider appears to be perched up on the horse. Can anyone explain difference or similarities without getting all snarky?
AQHA, or Paint, or Appy shows â itâs all the same. The class is actually Western Pleasure Under English Tack.
my first memory of English classes at AQHA shows is from the mid 70âs. There were two classes, Bridle Path Hack Hunt Seat and Bridle Path Hack Saddle Seat. I remember seeing a few classes with the double bridle and cutback saddles. The
saddle seat only lasted a few years. The name was changed to Hunter under saddle. There have been AQHA judges such as Carla Wennberg and Lynn Palm who have pushed to change the judging, to get the horses off their forehands and raise the frame.
It never really âevolved.â Kind of like wp, it got stuck as a stand alone class, and the movement and training never progressed to make the horse useful over fences. For many, itâs a singular specialization. WP should be a stepping stone to the more difficult and technical pattern classes, and HUS should be a stepping stone to eq and fences.
I once had the pleasure of exercise riding some AQHA HUS horses. They were pleasant and steady to ride. I think THAT is the pointâŠto have amateur friendly, easy to ride horses that donât pull, nor need to be pushed. Just steady and pleasant.
And some of those horses COULD pick it up and did the hunter over fences very well.
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I showed QHs in the 80s and I do think that the HUS has evolved from what was basically western riding in english tack back then, at least from what I have seen in reviewing show videos and such now. I donât show QHs now but Iâve been looking at buying a horse and have seen quite a few of them showing in the HUS at QH shows recently and many of them look like they could hold their own at the ârealâ (USEF or whatever) hunter shows. Out here they donât offer the jumping classes at the QH shows, which is a shame, and I think that might be why you see more of the western-y way of riding. But the horses that can go from here to the World/Congress and do well are very pleasing to watch and look enjoyable to ride, coming from a firmly hunter-entrenched former QH person.
[QUOTE=horsepoor;8073077]
I showed QHs in the 80s and I do think that the HUS has evolved from what was basically western riding in english tack back then, at least from what I have seen in reviewing show videos and such now. I donât show QHs now but Iâve been looking at buying a horse and have seen quite a few of them showing in the HUS at QH shows recently and many of them look like they could hold their own at the ârealâ (USEF or whatever) hunter shows. Out here they donât offer the jumping classes at the QH shows, which is a shame, and I think that might be why you see more of the western-y way of riding. But the horses that can go from here to the World/Congress and do well are very pleasing to watch and look enjoyable to ride, coming from a firmly hunter-entrenched former QH person.[/QUOTE]
Agree, the top fences horses can and do hold their own in the regular hunter world.
I have shown HUS from the 70s on. It used to be: the fastest trot won, and the horses were off the QH track, too hot for the western classes. Then, the very tall spidery HUS became the must-have item, during the WP peanut roller era, and those long legged things were throttled down to a lope with noses to the dirt. Bad era.
The Incentive Fund made it lucrative to breed IF QH studs to the TB mares, and some nice, well muscled, but still tall HUS horses resulted. The current big name modern HUS sires are really nice horses, and pretty legitimate because the HUS horses now have to be in better self carriage.
Throw in a recession or two, and amateurs and youth wanted only one horse to do it all (not two separate western and English horses). So the modern HUS horses come in two flavors: 1) The specialist HUS horse you see pretty much only at the major circuits, and 2) the All-Around HUS horse that needs to have basically one way of going that will work for the HUS , English Equitation, Western Horsemanship, and maybe Western Riding also. That is why they do not look like USEF hunters, they are multi-taskers with one frame for all. The real AQHA over-fences hunters seldom cross over to the western classes, because it is really hard to make that big of an adjustment in a horseâs frame (and brain), but many do show HUS also, usually at the major circuits where most of the horses in the HUS class are the specialist type.
I wanted to counter the âwestern pleasure in English tackâ stereotype, but the most recent video (2014) I could find of a big time winner (Congress 2yo Masters) was exactly that stereotype. Very disappointing, and has everything to do with the name of the high profile rider on that horseâs back.
That said, there are many HUS horses out there that do conform to the rule book standard (poll at or slightly above wither level, nose on or slightly in front of vertical, rider maintaining light contact with horseâs mouth, bright expression in the horse with free, forward, ground-covering strides).
The stock type hunters do travel with their heads lower than traditional hunters in many cases, but thatâs indicative of their breed. Just as ASBâs and Arabs carry their heads and necks in a manner indicative of their breed conformation, so do Quarters, Paints, and Appies. If they are bred for the show ring ârail classesâ, they naturally want to go long and low. I think people still envision the âsquare peg into round holeâ scenarios from a few decades ago that involved some controversial tactics to achieve the desired âhead setâ on these horses. That is pretty much a thing of the past. Modern show horses that are bred to purpose donât take much persuading to go around with their heads down. (Not to say there isnât bad training still going on, there definitely is.)
I earned an AQHA ROM in HUS on a horse I broke and trained all myself, and he loved cruising around with his head down. Came as natural to him as breathing.
This is my opinion, because it was what I saw locally:
You have a good winning western horse. You get bored and decide it would be fun to dress up as a hunter. Because, letâs face it, showing horses can be a lot about playing dress up. The judges see this old campaigner horse and popular rider who contributes a lot of money to the sport go jogginâ by and think âI canât beat old Teddy. Iâd better tie him well even though heâs not truly a hunterâ. Voilaâ - now everyone is doing it. And somewhere along the line⊠people just start developing that look on young horses because, hey, itâs winning.
[QUOTE=SmartAlex;8075424]
This is my opinion, because it was what I saw locally:
You have a good winning western horse. You get bored and decide it would be fun to dress up as a hunter. Because, letâs face it, showing horses can be a lot about playing dress up. The judges see this old campaigner horse and popular rider who contributes a lot of money to the sport go jogginâ by and think âI canât beat old Teddy. Iâd better tie him well even though heâs not truly a hunterâ. Voilaâ - now everyone is doing it. And somewhere along the line⊠people just start developing that look on young horses because, hey, itâs winning.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Itâs definitely the âgood olâ boys/galsâ mentality. The judges are the trainers and the trainers are the judges, so itâs âscratch my back and Iâll scratch yoursâ for the most part, especially up in the big time shows and futurities. They make their money putting points on horses, selling them to ammies and youth, keeping them in their training program, and taking those folks to shows. Itâs a cycle, and people with very good intentions have been trying for YEARS to break the cycle and improve the training and judging of these horses, but itâs practically impossible. The horses will win that are trained by the âin crowdâ, and those horses will be trained in a more âwesternâ way because thatâs their area of expertise. The people who buy these horses to show will be kept dependent on those trainers, and they will win because of who they train with and who owes who favors.
Iâd like to say itâll change, but I doubt it ever will. I showed at Congress 18 years ago, and the same issues that people argued over then are still being argued over now.
Itâs a shame. There ARE some lovely hunter horses that, if ridden and trained correctly could be so successful on the flat, in the patterns, and over fences, and could do USEF as well. But for whatever reason, the big MONEY goes to the rail classes. Thatâs where the trainers compete, and thatâs the direction the horses are pointed in from the time they are born.
Why should stock horses move like USEF horses? An Arab or a Morgan does not move like a Warmblood. Why should a stock horse?
People seem to think that everyone should aspire to USEF. Many stock horse people believe breed shows are the top of the line shows. USEF has nothing to do with most stock horse breed shows and vice versa. Breed shows are far from perfect. So are USEF shows.
I think itâs not so much about how they move but how they are trained and ridden in the ring. Plenty of stock-type hunter horses can and do compete in USEF shows. A lot of them are 1/2 - 3/4 TB anyway.
And the rule book is pretty clear about what the class is supposed to be about. The ideal hunter under saddle horse as outlined in the AQHA rule book is rarely seen winning in the AQHA show pen. There are some, but itâs rare. I think most if not all of the HUS horses showing COULD come close to that stated ideal if they had different riders and trainers. But thatâs the problem. The BNTs are not going to turn out horses that go like true hunters, so itâs the âwesternizedâ version that pins.
It has nothing to do with the breed, especially the purpose-bred, 17 hand, 3/4 TBs that inhabit the hunter under saddle classes.
[QUOTE=wonderhorseguy;8085454]
Why should stock horses move like USEF horses? An Arab or a Morgan does not move like a Warmblood. Why should a stock horse?
People seem to think that everyone should aspire to USEF. Many stock horse people believe breed shows are the top of the line shows. USEF has nothing to do with most stock horse breed shows and vice versa. Breed shows are far from perfect. So are USEF shows.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, but the USEF shows are open to all breeds, so they are non-breed specific and should exemplify the epitome of a true hunter. Of course, you canât expect the average QH to go like a wb that has been bred to jump for generations, but you can still look to those standards.
[QUOTE=wonderhorseguy;8085454]
Why should stock horses move like USEF horses? An Arab or a Morgan does not move like a Warmblood. Why should a stock horse?
People seem to think that everyone should aspire to USEF. Many stock horse people believe breed shows are the top of the line shows. USEF has nothing to do with most stock horse breed shows and vice versa. Breed shows are far from perfect. So are USEF shows.[/QUOTE]
My PERSONAL opinion is that the top standard for any judged event should be the venue where the most money or prizes are up, and is open to all. USHJA Hunter Derbies are this to me in hunters, the NRHA Futurity and open events are this in reining, World Cup or WEG in dressage, NRCHA Futurity and open events in Working Cowhorse. Absent qualifiers, that is what a top horse should be measured against. Breed shows do have a qualifier, in that most horses are not event specific, and this is where the issue lies.
BTW, the 2 Year Old Masters HUS at Congress is not the best event to see what the âtopâ HUS look like, as a 2 year old strong and mature minded enough to show there is probably not the same type/conformation of horse that will be winning at 4 + years. That is a stallion promotion class.
Good post, Plumcreek. Iâll add that the trend towards really big HUS horses can possibly mean that many 2 yo HUS horses are immature, therefore not performing to the best of their ability, or not yet being shown.
The twos that ARE being shown are bred to be stronger and more mature, thicker bodied, different conformation than the ones that will grow up to do well as aged HUS horses. As the winnerâs heads have come up and noses have come forward, those huge immature HUS babies cannot be held together tight enough to be shown.
I would like to add to my last post that the AQHA horses that are event specific, like reining, do cross over and win at the highest level - NRHA events.
The AQHA HUS is not comparable to the USEF HUS class, and this perpetual argument does not hold water. The USEF HUS horse is âusuallyâ (always in the rated) part of division and also competes over fences on the same day. There is no stand alone HUS class, like the AQHA HUS. ( I kind of wish there were.) If the AQHA working hunters also had a linked flat HUS class, open only to horses that did a fence class, it would look a lot more like the USEF version. The QH hunter hack horses do look different on the rail, in a large class.
Plumcreek, they are trying! This class was added to the Fox Lea Farm show, and it was a HUGE success. You had to show over fences to be eligible for it, and it was judged more towards the USEF standards. 
(although, you probably already knew that. lol)
When I showed AQHA HUS, the USEF standards werenât even on my radar. I was a youth (as in the age bracket) who also showed my horse western, and so did most of the other kids in my classes. I think of AQHA hunt-seat classes as their own thing, not aspiring to be like USEF in everything, though of course thereâs overlap. There were leggy purpose-bred HUS horses, but also lots of all-around types who did the WP, horsemanship, etc. classes in the afternoon. And thatâs fine!
[QUOTE=propspony;8086379]
Plumcreek, they are trying! This class was added to the Fox Lea Farm show, and it was a HUGE success. You had to show over fences to be eligible for it, and it was judged more towards the USEF standards. (although, you probably already knew that. lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-uJuAbn0qc[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting this, I had forgotten about that class. Problem is the âtheyâ that are âtryingâ are individuals using their own time and effort to put on these Hunter Derbies and scrounge sponsors and nice prizes. This takes the heat off AQHA to do it instead.
Gratitude to COTHer Sparkyâs daughter Lainie DeBoer and David Warner for starting the Huntfield Derby series and to the present owners of the franchise who are doing well and expanding it.
