Thanks for that info.
My friend who “knows” QH was who provided me with the Can’t Make the Cut theory of Ranch Horses.
Good to know there’s some out there breeding a more natural movement 
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If the judges didn’t reward it, you wouldn’t see it in the show ring. I place the blame squarely on the judges’ shoulders.
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Wow. New shady ways all the time (at least new to me).
I am trying to imagine how many units of botox a horse’s neck muscle would require.
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He’s getting worse and worse too. Or at least his more recent videos seem to be filled with him cussing and just sounding and acting like a total jackass.
I’ve never liked him though. Too full of himself. I’ll stick with Warwick Schiller and Tristan Tucker.
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At one point we shared a barn (H/J program) with a reining training who subscribed to the “wet saddle pad and tie-em-up-for-hours” regimine. Seriously, he’d have a rail of soaking wet, sweaty, panting 2 and 3 year olds tied for HOURS. No horses were turned out at this barn, ever. They worked repeatedly in the arena, stood tied at the rail, then back in stalls. All our H/J horses would stand in the cross ties or rail, too. Just not as a patience practice or to contemplate their training that day. The reining guy said it was a time saver. Not sure how that could be, as he then ended up with 5-6 horses to groom at the end.
At another barn (WP) that we shared, there were some shady things going on that I wonder about to this day. The tie ring in the rafters… the horses whose tails never moved…the horses who could barely walk sound on their tiny little halter horse feet…the jerking on spade bits to achieve the painful shuffle “jog”…the number of needles in the sharps container!
Honestly, it was awful to watch these sweet, patient horses be “trained”. Now, I know every discipline has it’s bad actors and elements, but how is that fun or ethical for anyone? I don’t understand the attraction to the WP or halter classes.
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Standlee’s Beyond the Barn Podcast did a two parter with CA. It started on auto play and I kept listening out of sheer intrigue with how much a tool he sounded like. I showed local circuits 20 years ago that were like AQHA/APHA lite shows and there was a lot of the nonsense at those. A couple of the trainers that did show the local and the breed shows got kicked out of AQHA first, then APHA, then started with Apps. I looked at a horse they had for sale at one point, and the bit had such a fine wire (it was custom) that I was afraid to even move the reins 
more than once when we had our Lippitt Morgans at open breed shows or breed presentations were we had old-timers stop to show their kids “this is what a Quarter Horse is supposed to look like”
I see the videos of the AQHA western pleasure and can not watch them, They have become a German Shepherd show dog breed
Just having to implement these new rules to show is an admission of the AQHA Registry’s failures to promote the breed’s positive points
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I’m with you on the WP horses, I can hardly look. But I have a private theory about the halter horses.
My Theory:
In the old days, the ranchers used the horses that were of old stock type, and they were good, solid horses who could do the work and hold up. They started selectively breeding the cattle to be heavier and heavier. More cow meat, more money at sale! All’s good. But what happened in the meantime is that the “eye” of the cowman changed, subconsciously, and gradually, to where any animal they looked at was too thin if it wasn’t “beefed up”. So, when these old cowmen looked at these good, solid, useful ranch horses, they thought they were too thin. And at halter, they didn’t get the ribbons because the changes in how these guys saw animals in general.
That’s my 2¢. YMMV
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Some of the horses in the ranch classes are pleasure bred too. Not everyone wants to crawl around the ring. 
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The botox isn’t new. I haven’t been keeping up with AQHA things for years, but heard about this maybe almost 20 years ago. With the money involved AQHA has to make sure to have definitive testing methods involved so they don’t end up in another miserable lawsuit. Yes they should have had this figured out years back, but look at USEF and see how quickly them move.
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Horses are athletes.
Go jog and then sit in a chair for an hour.
Great way to make you stiff, sore and cramped.
Yikes. Hours?
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Dont know about CA (or care) but back in the dark ages when I was involved in the Arabian world there was quite a scandal about cosmetic surgery to shape the neck, throatlatch area specifically. The notorious B Brothers. Ended up in court and, IIRC, jail time. Maybe 17 years ago or so I heard they slithered back in the business and were being sued for misrepresentation and fraud, shocking. My source was one of the plaintiffs in that suit.
So Botox would not surprise me one bit. Actually nothing surprises me much any more.
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It sure does still disappoint though.
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Very true….they are WP rejects 
I would hope people taper their rides so the exertion peaks somewhere other than immediately before the end of the ride, and also include a good cool down.
But lots of people probably don’t do that.
My horses aren’t hot when they get tied after a ride. They will be stalled for the night anyways, or if I’m there early on a weekend will go back into turnout when I’m all finished.
Even a stall is akin to sitting in that chair though, so a tapered ride and a proper cool down is critical.
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I think a horse that can hard tie quietly is worth their weight in gold. I do find a lot of western people put more value in hard tying as well. Hobble training, too, but that’s a different story.
I’m one that will ride, walk to cool down at least 20 minutes, longer depending on the work out, then go to the barn, untack, bathe, clean tack and put away, and do a few other miscellaneous tasks. They probably stand for an hour. I really don’t want them eating any sooner. I try to turn out after riding so they can move and stretch.
I will feed hay when tacking up to reduce gastric acid in the stomach prior to riding. But I see no qualms with asking them to stand a bit. I think it keeps them from getting sour and too antsy to get back to the barn.
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Sorry to continue the slight off topic but,
I’m no fan of Clinton but it is such a huge PITA when a horse doesn’t tie well or gets impatient post-ride to get back to their stall or whatever. Through a streak of bad luck all of our past horses have had issues hard tying or cross tying, including a gelding who would violently set back out of the blue. They all came to us this way. Two at least were eventually successfully taught to ground tie but I will never trust that one gelding. And a horse being antsy to be put up isn’t great to deal with.
My new gelding can hard tie anywhere and cross tie anywhere, no matter if he can see other horses or not. He will stand there dozing or quietly watching activities for as long as needed. And after a workout I can pop him in the cross ties and take my time brushing him down without pawing or calling or shifting around constantly. It’s lovely. He is picking up ground tying now as
well. I am an English rider but he came from a well-known and reputable western/reining trainer, which is no doubt where this skill came from. It is probably my favorite thing about him right now and makes everything SO much easier. I severely doubt that horses ruminate on their recent training sessions via standing tied for hours but boy howdy is it nice to tie a horse for however long I need and have him be chill about it. I’m going to train up a baby soon and they will definitely learn tying patience. Agreed however that providing hay at least, if its a long session, is only fair.
I know no one here is really debating how useful tying is as a skill but after years of dealing with tie issues, having one who does it well is almost luxurious.
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My boy ties, cross ties, and ground ties. But… don’t put a leather halter on him. He’ll pull back and snap the headstall every time (even one with just a leather headstall). That’s why he wears a nylon halter. As much as I hate them. He seems to know the difference. He never even pulls when wearing the nylon halter.
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Don’t forget rubbing an irritant like ginger under the tail and anus “to keep the tail up” yikes!
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Yup- this. My horses get done working, get groomed and turned out immediately.
All of them tie for however long I need them to quietly tie without having to practice it daily
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