I agree with Kelly that this board is doscile compared to how some of the others can be.
From what I can see from the photos, it is a controlled area and I’m sure if this was something that wasn’t safe, then it wouldn’t be continued with. From the Western Please shows I’ve gone to (to watch) with my sister & her paint, this is what the judges look for.
I am a CDE driver, and I have worked with other driving/riding disciplines - people have to take their “blinders” off to see that there are different ways of doing things in EVERY discipline. I know I drive a lot differently from other CDE drivers, and I don’t always agree with my (heavily awarded) trainer. But my style works for me and my horses.
TO EACH HIS OWN!
It’s my Facebook page and should not require a password. And I’m not sure what you mean by you’re better off not knowing what is there. I show my Saddlebred at the higher levels of our breed shows and am happy to answer any questions. As you said, asking questions is how you learn…
Pictures and videos on facebook are only visible to members. Of course anyone can become a member, but some of us still choose not to, and we miss some things. I can’t view the saddlebred videos either.
Just mentioning it because if you want everyone to be able to see your videos and pics, you will have to upload them to a public site or vids to youtube, maybe. Maybe facebook users are fine with only members viewing, whatever.
Yip
Here’s your photo Tiffani, in a different link…
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs093.snc1/4953_209777490541_556685541_7206816_6104289_n.jpg
I like your horse! 
I’ve started working with saddlebreds here… but they aren’t the same look as yours.
[QUOTE=Tiffani B;4421918]
It’s my Facebook page and should not require a password. And I’m not sure what you mean by you’re better off not knowing what is there. I show my Saddlebred at the higher levels of our breed shows and am happy to answer any questions. As you said, asking questions is how you learn…[/QUOTE]
Sorry, a page comes up asking for my password.
I think that, no matter the value in principle to the ones participating in any discipline, just as this OP was startled and wondered about the differences between conventional driving and AQHA driving, I probably would be with saddlebred driving.
Not that I don’t want to learn more, but it is hard for me to get past some saddlebred people do to their horses, just as saddlebred people had a hard time watching our jumping classes, worriedly gasping at every effort.:eek:
Like so much in life, it depends where you are, how you look at the way things are.
All of us have to learn to get along and know when we don’t know enough.
That doesn’t mean we have to automatically like what others do with their horses, interesting that it may seem.
Since I straddle both worlds, I would like to make a couple of comments.
The pleasure driving carts and fine harness buggies are only used in the show and training rings, neither they nor the harness are designed to go in any kind of rough terrain.
Light, easy to pull, and show off the horse are what they are designed to do.
When I discovered wooden wheeled carts, I was estatic. I was able to safely drive my mares in the woods and over creeks … without worrying about the wheels collapsing. I bought a pleasure driving harness and never looked back.
However, I when I attended a major combined driving show in Pensylvania was horrified at the condition and treatment of some the horses. I went to the show and saw horses treated in a way that I think of as cruel. One extemely wellbred Morgan was skin and bones with a dull dry coat. The well known owner thought that was “racing condition”. 20+ years later I still shudder.
There are prejudices in both worlds. Ignorant and callous treatment of horses in both worlds.
Each world has its good points. Each its bad. Ask courteous questions and you’ll usually get courteous responses.
I’m still at a loss as to why some decsions are made. I believe many decisions are made simply because “that’s the way we’ve always done it”
I have all of my facebook photo albums set so the world can view them, not just my friends or facebook members. Weird. I’ll add them to my picasa account.
If I read this right, what you saw at this CDE happened 20+ years ago. The sport has changed drastically since then, as have many other disciplines (including breed shows). I don’t think this is the best example of showing the “bad side” of a discipline. But I concur with the rest of your post.
As to Facebook, you can certainly don’t have to be a member to view pictures as long as the person posting the pics uses the “public” link provided underneath the album or picture on Facebook. Our website has many links to Facebook albums that are accessible to everyone. :yes:
Basically the experience so upset me that I’ve avoided this end of the driving world since then.
I know that there are many devoted people in it. But I still remember that wonderful horse. Even more upsetting to me since I knew the horse before his purchase and entry into the CDE world.
But Donkeys and myself have a lot in common … as my husband will testify!
[QUOTE=KellyS;4421706]
Actually I’ve always considered this board one of the more “gentle” boards on COTH. I can only think of one situation where things really got wild–and that was the carriage wreck video. There is always going to be differences of opinion–and that’s what makes discussion forums tick.
I hardly think there is a preponderance of CDE drivers here…I’ve always thought it was a nice collection of different disciplines. For example, Lost Farmer’s posts on driving on his farm and the 4-H club activities. No one ever has said anything negative on those threads. And you’ve got Cartfall sharing about long distance driving, and then drivers going to pleasure shows. How about the lady who just shared her story of her percheron’s show…only nice things said there as well.
I think it is one thing to criticize a sport you are not familiar with, but having been a very active AQHA competitor I definitely have concerns with safety and comfort aspects of their driving classes and equipment. But to do a couple laps around the ring it probably isn’t that big of a deal.
I’m not condoning nfld’s inflammatory remarks, but I think it’s a bit of a stretch to then say that the forum is too specialized or too mean-spirited. If anything, it’s dying a slow death due to lack of interesting discussion. Heck, anyone who posts to the CD-L knows that driving discussions can get pretty hot…the key is not to take them personally and if you feel the post is inflammatory, don’t rise to the bait.
Carry on![/QUOTE]
Nice post KellyS. I was not trying to be a thread killer, just thought some things might not have needed saying in that way.
You would hope some new folks are not too afraid to come ask questions or brag up their horse in any kind of driving. I think COTH is one of the nicest groups to talk driving on. I enjoy the variety of driving that gets discussed. It may seem very CDE because those posters keep us up on their outings more than other folks. In CDE some details get much attention because they can influence the results to a big degree. Pleasure driving has details that count greatly in the show ring as well, whether using Fine Harness or Carriage Harness. Safety can’t be overlooked in any of the driving activities, keeps the shiny side up.
horsegeeks ~ As you stated, that was 20+ years ago!!! Things have changed drastically…in all disciplines! Hell, I think the horses have it better off at a CDE than most of the owners, and definitly the hired grooms! Having a horse at a CDE, or any show at that rate, would be completely unacceptable!, and I’m sure it would be addressed by officials. UGH!, sorry, I’m heading off on a completely different topic than what this thread. I’m just defending my sport.
However, I do agree with the rest of the first post you wrote.
FYI: when I first tried to look at the facebook pictures, I was prompted to enter user name/password and when I did, I was told they were not public. I closed the browser and tried again and was taken directly to the photos.
OK, try this!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8824561&l=f2eecc8959&id=556685541
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5732203&l=b238e2f542&id=556685541
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=213705&id=556685541&l=6ec963fd56
Hopefully that will work.
Not to derail the thread- but I wandered over here from the other forums and was wondering if those of you with experience with AQHA/APHA pleasure driving PM me? I am a total novice when it comes to driving, but have decided that I want to continue my mare’s driving training, and being that we show on the breed circuit these are the types of classes we will be doing. TIA.
MyPaintWattie - you wouldn’t be derailing the thread, but bringing it back to its original supposed point - “talk to me about QH driving classes”
For the CDE defenders (and I am often one of them) - Lots more fun picking on QHs than having someone poke at CDEs isn’t it? And, unfortunately some of those changes over the past 20 years haven’t always been in the best interest of the horses or the sport.
20 years ago you could drive Training and low level prelim in a roadcart or Meadowbrook, now you need a purpose built many thousand dollar marathon carriage or its nearly impossible to play the game - not very encouraging to beginners.
20 years ago marathon was also about pace - not very much any more - its all hazard speed - judges will bend over backward to find out what’s wrong if someone actually has time penalties on course. Competitors think pacing the horse over the course is going so fast you almost have to walk in to make the minimum time etc.
20 years ago cones was about the horses ability to recover after the marathon and do a test of accuracy on Day 3 (actually most were Dressage, Cones then marathon even then) Someone decided it was ‘boring’ and that even though cones was never intended to be an equallizer it should be more important. Now we have a giant hazard with measured short courses and super tight cones for advanced so the average non-involved spectator can’t figure out why those drivers are called advanced cause they seem to be bowling rather than driving through the cones. And yes I have heard spectators make those sorts of comments.
20 years ago we had many fantastic drivers and some bad eggs - same now
Still love much about the sport, but I don’t think some of the directions we are going in lead to better driving in all cases.
[QUOTE=Drive NJ;4422275]
MyPaintWattie - you wouldn’t be derailing the thread, but bringing it back to its original supposed point - “talk to me about QH driving classes”
For the CDE defenders (and I am often one of them) - Lots more fun picking on QHs than having someone poke at CDEs isn’t it? And, unfortunately some of those changes over the past 20 years haven’t always been in the best interest of the horses or the sport.
20 years ago you could drive Training and low level prelim in a roadcart or Meadowbrook, now you need a purpose built many thousand dollar marathon carriage or its nearly impossible to play the game - not very encouraging to beginners.
20 years ago marathon was also about pace - not very much any more - its all hazard speed - judges will bend over backward to find out what’s wrong if someone actually has time penalties on course. Competitors think pacing the horse over the course is going so fast you almost have to walk in to make the minimum time etc.
20 years ago cones was about the horses ability to recover after the marathon and do a test of accuracy on Day 3 (actually most were Dressage, Cones then marathon even then) Someone decided it was ‘boring’ and that even though cones was never intended to be an equallizer it should be more important. Now we have a giant hazard with measured short courses and super tight cones for advanced so the average non-involved spectator can’t figure out why those drivers are called advanced cause they seem to be bowling rather than driving through the cones. And yes I have heard spectators make those sorts of comments.
20 years ago we had many fantastic drivers and some bad eggs - same now
Still love much about the sport, but I don’t think some of the directions we are going in lead to better driving in all cases.[/QUOTE]
Great post, DNJ,
It is a interesting to see how the sport has changed. I did not actually ever see one unti Live Oak 1993 and it took me a long time to get back to it.
As for the OP questions – any sport is going to have different groups within that have totally different groups.
Breed shows are a personal choice. Not my cup of tea going around in circles in a show ring–been there done that BORING for me. Other folks may think I am crazy and unsafe for wanting to go blasting through the woods for 25 miles and tell me I am abusing my horse for driving him 40 or so miles a week in training. Others may want to blast Lost Farmer for making his horses pull those awful weights at horse pulls–OMG actually have a horse work as they did for eons before the internal combustion engine took their jobs.
Give it a rest and listen to the well written replies of those who are telling you to be a bit more objective and not subjective.
As for the way a breed goes in their show, every single breed has different ideals of what is perfect. The sad thing, so many things are done to horses to make them go “the perfect way”—not refering only to QH, Saddlebred, Morgan, Arabians, etc, .
And Kelly, it certainly has been quiet around here, too quiet all summer–I just assumed everyone was out driving their horses!!!:yes:
I know I did !!!
[QUOTE=Tiffani B;4422226]
OK, try this!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8824561&l=f2eecc8959&id=556685541
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5732203&l=b238e2f542&id=556685541
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=213705&id=556685541&l=6ec963fd56
Hopefully that will work.[/QUOTE]
Now the pictures show up.
Very unique, that I have to say, the way the horse goes.
The cart and harness seem a little more sturdy than in the pictures of the AQHA classes.
Those are very neat pictures.
Thanks for making them available.:yes:
okay, I have to chime in on this one.
I too straddle the fence, having grown up in the Saddlebred, Arab breed pleasure driving classes. I have only recently added carriage driving to my resume and I am hard pressed to want to show breed in the bike tire carts again.
Why? for the obvious, my arms get tired, I can’t see but for my horse’s blowhole and I know the cart isn’t at it’s best balance.
I don’t know why so many QH people jack the shafts so high because it isn’t necessary. I assume it makes their heads “look” lower. What this does do to the horse is put more of the pull on the underside of their girth line. Not the most comfortable. Just because our horses do it doesn’t make it the best for them. I think a lower shaft line does not detract from the QH looking good.
The broken line of rein is unavoidable in most pleasure breeds whether your horse is low headed like QH or high headed like Saddlebred. What is important is the horse’s manners and responsiveness to that particular driver and his rein skills. But it does get tiring having to hold your arms over your head.
Personally, I think breed driving could be made more comfortable for horse and driver by changing out the standard 24" bike tire for a larger wood wheel. We have many Jeralds and Houghtons running around with beautiful wood wheels on them and it does not detract from the horse’s way of going or overall picture.
Now, one thing that I absolute disagree with in breed driving is the wrapping of the traces around the shafts. This has always raised my hackles for one reason, the horse’s comfort. Wrapped traces do not allow the breast collar and single tree to move with the horse, therefore poor Dobbin’s shoulders are being road rashed back and forth underneath the breast coller. Fine harness also has the handy shaft wrap strap at the tug loops, which most people mistakenly wrap excessively tight so as to squeeze the cart shafts in. Where does all that tightening pressure get transferred to? To top and bottom of the horse’s barrel. And most times the shafts are wrapped down so tight around the saddle, the horse is pulling by the saddle, not the breast collar.
Again, just because ol’ Dobbin mild mannerly goes around the ring for us, doesn’t mean it’s in his best interest.
I agree, for those of us that follow “traditional” physics of carriage driving, breed driving looks weird. but I feel with some minor adjustments and someone going out there just bucking the trend so to speak, breed driving can be improved to make the horse and driver more comfy, safe and balanced without detracting from the beauty of the individual breeds.
FWIW = you think QH in a bike is odd, you should see a big lick Walking Horse in fine harness viceroy! It’s just…odd. you want to look away but find yourself staring!
IMHO, the AQHA has been very good about evolving to meet the needs of it’s membership. From allowing for TB blood (appendix registry) to create a taller horse with increased jumping abilities (and to contribute to the racing QH), to changing the “white rule” to allow for more varied colors, to rewriting the rules to state that the horse must show forward progress when it seemed as people were trying to lope their animals at a standstill! QHs can also now earn AQHA points for dressage. It doesn’t seem to be a far cry for them to add other types of driving, as the AQHA “Pleasure Driving” popularity seems to be growing by leaps & bounds.
JMHO
I have not even commented on this post and my name gets taken in vain. :lol:
In the end it all comes down to what you do with your animals. I have a good friend that has an awesome pair of driving mules. Not the kind of mule that you would take to a show but the kind that you can hook to a wagon and chore with. They will walk the edge of a feed ground with out a driver so he can pitch hay to the cattle they are broke to back, gee, haw and step on voice command. My horses are more in the bit and have much more sensitive steering. Just the way I like them. His mules work as a walk and occasionally walk. Mine trot hard and fast and occasionally walk. Which is better? It depends on if you are feeding cattle of headed to town.
LF
