AQHA training & "buttons"

[hbowers]

Hi all,

I have been asked to test ride an appendix mare for a friend. She’s a six year old hunt seat horse. The first thing she told me about the mare is that she was trained by a quarter horse trainer, and she has all her “buttons”. I realize that this usually means that instead of responding to the natural aids, the horse is taught to respond to certain specific cues.

So I’m curious, what are horses with “buttons” like to ride? I have been riding a long time, but never been on a horse like that and I’m wondering what to expect and how to get the most out of testing her out. Thanks!

[Lori]

It depends on what the buttons are. Most of these horses are super broke, which I love. Ask what aids you use for what gaits. Ask if she is spur trained. I tried a spur trained POA and it was a complete disaster. I could not even get the pony to move forward correctly, so I learned to ask about this first. I have ridden both pony hunters and with a western pleasure trainer, so my riding is a mix of the two.

As an example, my new POA was started and trained to have buttons, but did not have spur training. They still work off of what you call natural aids, just a bit different. My pony moves off the leg rather than bending around it. Outside leg and he moves away from it on a turn. You can use your inside leg to hold him, but no pressure is needed. It is kind of opposite the bending around the leg that I have be relearning my skills on. Rein aids are very, very subtle and he is neck rein trained. Whoa is whoa, so if properly trained, it takes very little to get a stop. Gift holds himself in a frame. He can go on a loose rein and aids can be very subtle. Transitions are done after he is on the bridle. Cluck to trot, kiss to canter. Thankfully, he is trained similar to how I learned years ago in VA.
That said, I am going to take some lessons from a WP trainer in the area to relearn the cues and aids to make sure I am doing it properly.

[enjoytheride]

[QUOTE=hbowers;7299413]
Hi all,

I have been asked to test ride an appendix mare for a friend. She’s a six year old hunt seat horse. The first thing she told me about the mare is that she was trained by a quarter horse trainer, and she has all her “buttons”. I realize that this usually means that instead of responding to the natural aids, the horse is taught to respond to certain specific cues.

So I’m curious, what are horses with “buttons” like to ride? I have been riding a long time, but never been on a horse like that and I’m wondering what to expect and how to get the most out of testing her out. Thanks![/QUOTE]

I am very confused by what you mean. Do you psychically beam “canter canter” into your horse’s head? What on earth are the “natural aids?”

I put buttons on all the horses I ride, usually big shiny ones with a funny saying on them.

For serious, it’s not like someone glued a “canter” button onto the horse and you whack it when you want them to go. Or that you touch their left ear if you want them to leg yield.

A horse that is advertised as having “buttons” would mean a well finished horse that will WTC to the standard cues in a respectable manner. Inside leg on the girth outside leg back for canter, etc. Leg on the girth for leg yield. Etc.

The only nitpicking detail stuff might be if you expect her to move more off seat aids then leg aids but that’s a pretty easy button to install.

[fivesocks]

Cluck to trot, kiss to canter. Easy means slow down and whoa means plant your feet.

[enjoytheride]

I’ve ridden western, hunter, dressage, and event horses and they all respond the same way to those cues.

[ThirdCharm]

WP horses have buttons that mean nothing to an event horse. kiss for trot, cluck for canter, for instance. If you are unlucky enough to ride a spur trained horse, dig in as hard as you can WITH SPURS and then RELEASE for lope (seriously). Kick kick kick with spurs means slow down. Etc. So for all you skeptics, this is a perfectly reasonable question. Even dressage, most lower level horses canter off the outside leg aid but some UL horses have been switched to the inside leg as the canter depart aid, outside leg just tells lead. I had a student who had a heck of a time cantering her horse until she realized he was trained to go off the inside leg cue! Heck, I showed a very successful hunter for a lady once, of you half halted or touched him with your leg he did a flying change, you had to use voice and reins only. Nightmare. Watch Cavalia, they have a horse who backs up when you scratch his butt.

Jennifer

[caughtintheact]

It depends a lot on the trainer. Ask about it before you ride.

edit: On the one QH-trained horse I’ve ridden, I could not for the life of me figure out how to trot (but could get him to trot if I hit him with my hand behind my leg, lol). Roll outside spur up to canter, put both spurs on to slow down/halt depending on how hard you put your spur in. Hands by your knees and bump back and forth once or twice to set his head.
I have a friend who rode QHs for a while and her trainer trains the horses to set their head by first “fishing” for the head (outside rein straight up and pull/release until they drop their head), then press in the outside spur to keep it. Use kind of a fluttery leg with both legs for trot, roll outside spur to canter, both legs slightly back and spur to slow down/halt.

[arlosmine]

The natural aids work by reflex. Like a hammer hitting a knee. They start with a horse’s natural response to one another, like a mom horse moving a baby around…The rider capitalizes on that sort of “hardwired” horsie communication, starting with weight aids. More aids are gradually added, get refined and overlapped as the horse and rider progress.

“Buttons” are learned associations, like kissing for canter. They are a signal or cue…not an aid.

[enjoytheride]

I think that’s way too complicated and way overanalyzing test riding a horse. Leg means go, pressure or the suggestion of pressure on the bit means whoa. More leg means trot and legs in a certain way mean canter. It’s basic and the same aids are used in both western and english worlds.

A spur stop or neck reining is specific to western riding but if it’s an english horse it probably neck reins although maybe with not as much contact.

If someone has a hard time figuring out that legs on the girth will ask the horse to trot then maybe someone else should test ride the horse.

[Senszuri]

I’ve ridden a true spur trained horse (HUS or WP stock type) with “buttons” only a handful of times (friend rides on the Buckskin circuit) and it is very different.

Hers were trained so rider essentially does everything without touching the reins. Hold the spur by the girth to halt. Bump the spur in the same spot to back. Pivot by only applying pressure on one side. Move leg slightly back and spur to trot. Outside spur to lope. Weirdest thing to get used to was as you are going in a walk trot or canter, you bump your spurs to make the horse put its head down.

I’ll stick to my h/j mare.

[mjs8]

I briefly exercised horses broke for WP and EP, and it was a lot to get used to! Bumping at the girth dropped the horses’ heads. I would squeeze and lift my hands slightly, and they would just keep lowering and lowering. Couldn’t figure out how to get them back up to at least the poll lol. But yes, cluck for trot, kiss for canter, very minimal contact on the mouth, and driving seat at both posting trot and canter.

[hbowers]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! enjoytheride- I think you may have misunderstood me. Overcomplicated is not my intention. I’m a proficient rider and yes, I’m aware that leg pressure at the girth usually means “go”, but as ThirdCharm, Lori and arlosmine pointed out, buttons sometimes diverge from “leg means go” mentality. I was just curious to hear some experiences with these types of horses.

Most of the posts were interesting guys, thanks again

[MyssMyst]

[QUOTE=ThirdCharm;7299740]
WP horses have buttons that mean nothing to an event horse. kiss for trot, cluck for canter, for instance. If you are unlucky enough to ride a spur trained horse, dig in as hard as you can WITH SPURS and then RELEASE for lope (seriously). Kick kick kick with spurs means slow down. Etc. So for all you skeptics, this is a perfectly reasonable question. Even dressage, most lower level horses canter off the outside leg aid but some UL horses have been switched to the inside leg as the canter depart aid, outside leg just tells lead. I had a student who had a heck of a time cantering her horse until she realized he was trained to go off the inside leg cue! Heck, I showed a very successful hunter for a lady once, of you half halted or touched him with your leg he did a flying change, you had to use voice and reins only. Nightmare. Watch Cavalia, they have a horse who backs up when you scratch his butt.

Jennifer[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY. I can’t ride a spur-trained horse if my life depended on it. The cues I know mean something ENTIRELY different to them. Threw me for a complete loop when I started riding Arabs and found that some of the main ring ones are trained to set their heads by you lifting your outside hand. My HA mare is saddleseat-gone-main ring hunter-gone-dressage, so she has a kind of weird blend of buttons, and every now and then I accidentally hit an old saddleseat button, lol. Instant English pleasure horse!

On some of the Arabs (Morgans too) you’ll get the wrong lead EVERY time if you bend to the inside when asking for a canter depart. REALLY threw my h/j friend when she tried to ride my old saddleseat mare that moved down to hunter. The concept of bending to the outside for canter was completely foreign to her. I about died trying to ride a WP-trained QH the first time, it was an entirely different world. I got the hang of it, but it was very obvious I spoke a different language than the horse did. Not all of them are trained simply for “leg at the girth means go forward.”

A lot of the HUS horses still have WP-type cues. I would ask the trainer what cues the horse is used to and go from there.

[pryme_thyme]

[QUOTE=fivesocks;7299596]
Cluck to trot, kiss to canter. Easy means slow down and whoa means plant your feet.[/QUOTE]

This.
My sister has a middle aged (retired), HUS gelding, the kiss kiss for Canter is hard to get used to versus the traditional que for canter. One cluck or kiss to trot. Leg is a lateral que for him so you must be very clear what you want.

My biggest battle are lead changes with him. He takes a big push at girth with your new inside leg and a twist in your body with kiss kiss for lead change. Try remembering THAT when you are rolling around a course.

They have a TON of buttons but it is really fun figuring them out. I will likely get bashed for this one but many of the made AQHA’s are amazing! The level of training is spectacular.