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Arabian experts-- how to ride their conformation?

Dressage
#1

My Arabian x WB who got hurt last year is now walking and trotting a bit under saddle. And she feels like riding a wheelbarrow!

The short version of my question: How to we ride this particular conformation so as to correctly strengthen it without making it stiff?

The details of her conformation and way of going follow. My are mare is very weak, so she exacerbates the biomechanics that her conformation produces. See what looks like “normal Arabian but worse” to you:

Like many Arabians, she feels wiggly.

She is remarkably pear-shaped, with a wide, sausagey rib cage narrowing up to a slim heart girth and (probably) a narrow rib cage between her shoulders. Imagine a ship in dry dock needing to be propped up because it if rests on its keel on the ground, it will assuredly fall over to one side.

Her neck is long and (I’d guess) weak at the base. I’m not sure this is right, but it seems to me that if her neck were built stronger at the base, she’d be able to use it to help balance (side-to-side) that ship-shaped body she has behind it. As you’d expect of a horse who has been on bed rest for 15 months, she has more muscle in the top 2/3 of her neck than upper trapezius. I think this might be a bit of an “Arabian thing,” too.

She tends to be “light in the poll” or ready to flex there. Or at least she was when I bought her and was riding her as a very green horse before she was hurt. I have not ridden her to encourage this and this year, she’s actually pretty good at finding my hand/the contact and resting there, allowing me to help her balance as we just trot around in long, straight lines as prescribed.

Her carcass is a touch down hill, though she doesn’t look it if you compare withers to croup. She’s light on her feet, but sitting on her, you can feel it.

And my the biomechanical story that I make up:

It seems to me that the wiggliness comes from a horse who is built so narrow in front that she easily loses her balance laterally in her front limbs. And being weak at the base of her neck, it’s hard for her to use her head and neck (correctly, with throughness) to keep her balance. It also seems to me that my job is to help her strengthen that 1/3 of her neck (preferrably on the top; upper trapezius) so that she can lift her rib cage from the top and use her neck to stabilize that narrow, unbalanced rib cage.

But is it a problem to always ask a horse like this to reach up and out with the base of her neck, ideally leaving her nose tipped out in front of the vertical? No long-and-low since she’s already downhill and that will just tip her farther forward onto her forehand

I’d be grateful for your expertise on this point. I was at a young horse clinic this weekend taught by Christine Traurig and she emphasized riding the young ones according to the training scale (of course), but also modifying that as needed to work with the particular issues that the baby’s conformation brings.

Of course, none of the horses there at the Arabian build, lol.

Thank you!

#2

Up, open, and slow the tempo as much as you need to keep balance. My mare has plenty of ability, but conformationally some of the same weaknesses. I do agree that you have to work with your horse’s build, and too frequently riders don’t do that. The simple summary if someone didn’t understand it like you do is if the horse wants to put its head up, you need to work on getting it down, if it wants to put its head down, you need to get it up. Lengthening the neck so the correct muscles can work is a big key, and that lengthening the neck allows the back to move and the long muscles of the back to develop in a more lengthened manner. Arabians typically want to tighten their back which helps pull the neck in shorter, forcing the sternum down rather than lifting, making their necks arched as wanted in the breed show ring but not the correct development you are asking about.

I am guessing from your description that lateral work is out right now for a bit? I don’t know what the injury was. My mare has that easy ability to shorten neck up and force herself on the forehand, so lots and lots of transitions helped a lot in building strength, half steps to build the hind end so it can support lifting the front end, etc. And definitely up and open allowing that freedom and reach in front.

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#3

Thank you, netg. Your post makes sense.

This mare wrecked her stifle last year, so she’s just trotting in long straight lines for now. She also toes out from the tibia (hope I have the name right… long bone below the stifle where the gaskin is), so there’s that perhaps making things tough on that joint. All this is to say that I’m being very slow and conservative, and we haven’t done much of anything lateral or asking for her to bear extra weight on her hind limbs. That said, she’s been very sound with the conservative prescription for work I have been given, so I’m game to add in a bit more that loads that joint. I can give you a more specific description of the damage and repair involved if that would help.

In any case, I take your basic point-- ride the horse toward the “middle ground” of what is correct, and away from the particular extreme its conformation invites.

I’m not sure am educated enough to feel swing on this little tight-backed horse, but I can find a long, slow rhythm that reminds me of the trot you’d want if you were riding a hunter in a hack class. Your point about choosing a slower tempo so as to give her a chance to keep her balance is well taken. If I can post a little slower and sit a bit longer, my seat taking a moment to “stabilize” while I’m in the saddle, this horse gets more relaxed. I also have to remind myself not to lean out at this mare. If I lean over that narrow front end, she has a harder time finding her balance.

So far this year (as opposed to when I bought her and knew less), my goal has been to keep her between my reins and, if she starts to veer one way or another (usually falling to her weaker side), I’m keeping my hands even and trying to add leg on that inside side. If she doesn’t step over, I don’t pull her head the opposite direction as you might with a colt following the bit. I think if you pull her head around, her neck is too weak to have her shoulders follow and she just learns harder on that opposite, “outside” front leg. In other words, I prioritize the alignment of her front and hind limbs and, if she doesn’t move her shoulders over from my leg, I assume she doesn’t have enough strength to do more and I won’t fix that by pulling her head around. I just have to use a few more steps in almost a leg-yield to get there. If she does a bit of a leg yield-- she puts that inside right front leg back in line with the inside hind leg and feels aligned again, I praise her and go on. I want her to discover the comfort of being in alignment and in balance so that she can allow me to help her get there.

It’s so interesting to discover that leading a horse around by one side of the bit (that “colt 101” thing), might work really well with the stoutly-built AQHA and not with a very week, narrow-shouldered Arabian!

If I always ride this horse “up and out” from the withers and the base of the neck, will I make her stiff there? I will say that when I can produce this posture in her neck, that wobbly, “wheelbarrow” lack of balance in her very narrow front end feels better. She also gets the tiniest bit less-downhill. This was how my very good young horse pro was directing me to ride her before her injury. We just didn’t get far enough along with this mare’s development for me to know if this would be an “always” thing for her. I think that some day, I should be able to ride this horse with her neck in any position without that meaning that she falls on her forehand or drops her back. But that’s because the horse would have a magnificent amount of core strength such that it’s neck wasn’t so integral to keeping its balance.

This mare has a nice long neck that’s set on better than most (thanks to her RPSI daddy), oh and she has long, spindly legs, so her center of gravity is a bit high. She has not been ridden like a Main Ring Arabian with the arched neck/low sternum they usually exhibit. I am trying hard to ride this horse with an open throat-latch for a couple of reasons.

  1. I don’t know how young, weak dressage horses ridden on the contact and can only produce Behind the Vertical necks initially develop into 3rd and 4th level horses who don’t. So I’m worried that I’d make a horse who always stayed behind the vertical just because I’m not educated enough about creating a contact that actually invites forward movement with the neck and nose.

  2. I think Arabians find it easy to tuck their chins, so anyone with less-than-perfect hands and a concombinant unwillingness to go forward (but with a tempo that allows them to balance) will inadvertently make a horse curl up.

Thanks for reading all this! It’s hard to find people who can see me ride this mare “live” who will also do Anatomy Talk with me.

#4

From the one ArabX that I’ve ridden (and those that I’ve seen going around)…

They are often built with a flat croup and are out behind. So even though the neck doesn’t feel great, a lot of finding the right shape of the neck will come from getting the hind legs to step through and under. This may mean slowing down or speeding up a bit to get the horse to access different places of balance than her preference. Before she got hurt, did you ever find a really bouncy trot? For the particular cross I rode, I could really influence the height and cadence of his trot by sitting and showing him how high and how slow/fast with my seat.

Keeping the shoulders square and the nose in between the shoulders is key. If she’s got a shoulder she likes to lean on, move the hind end and keep the neck straight.

Don’t be afraid of a stretching trot if the base of the neck gets tight or she sets up a block right in front of the withers. If you don’t feel like the whole topline from tail to poll is accessible, use her noodly neck and walk in a very small circle, bent to the inside, asking for an extreme out and down stretch.

Those are my suggestions - in a nutshell: think about the hind legs coming more under first, keep the neck and shoulders straight, think about a soft topline that you can easily bow up at any time.

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#5

Good luck with your mare!! I don’t really believe in breed differences. She is a horse and when you ride her correct, she will improve.
I think your problems sound exactly as expected after such a long break. I am sure she lost a lot of muscles.

What I would suggest, not sure if its possible at this stage.
Walk her and try to get the perfect feeling in the walk try to follow her neck movement to give her trust, but still try to ride her in the walk in a nice rhythm and balance. Once you feel very good, start trotting. Try to transition the great feeling from the walk into the trot… And stop trotting if you feel uncomfortable on her.
Go back to walk, get the nice feeling back and once you have start trotting again. Try to trot only when it feels good. Believe me in the beginning the trot phases will be short but once she finds her balance and rhythm she will be able to hold it longer. And its probably better for her body to move balanced. Good luck with it. It takes a lot of focus in the beginning but its so much fun for both of you once it works…

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#6

@ theresak-- thanks for your post. This one has a much-better-than-average hind end for an Arabian/ArabianX. She does reach under more than you see in those “out behind 'em, lots of hock action, but it’s all behind them” horses.

When I rode her last, we didn’t yet have a bouncy, “hind end organized” trot. The closest we came in that respect was getting a larger and smaller trot on a circle. I think that if I had compressed her enough to try and create more suspension, I just would have pulled her nose in. The horse was really in her first year of conditioning, building that base of fitness to support a proper use of her core.

I will, however, think about those simple instructions you suggest: Keep the shoulders straight and ask for more hind end when you have that and see what you get. The good news about these light little horses is that it doesn’t seem hard for them to lift up their rib cage. You have to ask, of course, but this is a 1,150 pound animal, not a 1,500 one.

#7

It doesn’t sound like your horse is exactly like the one I’ve ridden, but he’d get very wiggly when he was behind the leg. Any time you couldn’t get his nose to stay between his shoulders or you couldn’t keep the shoulders from dodging every which way, he was not going truly forward. I was guilty of chasing him too forward at times, but if you added a quick leg aid and didn’t give them a hand to lay on, it usually would lengthen the frame from a curled state.

You can also try a core HH and fluff with the reins then release (and maybe a very light leg) to send the neck out. But honestly, I found it easier to let him stretch in the trot and regather the reins to reset the neck - if we has willing to stretch over the topline. The risk with the stretch for him is it would let the hind legs out behind. The nice thing about these smaller horses is that I can get a better feeling of “leg around the horse” to really get a good feel of lifting the rib cage with my legs and allowing the back to come up with my seat.

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#8

Makes sense to me!

The previous phase of our rehab prescription involved walking under saddle, up to 45 minutes per day. (Sigh.) So I had lots of time to spend figuring out how to create the feeling of this mare reaching evenly into both of my hands and just getting comfortable there, both physically and psychologically. She didn’t have that last year. Also, this mare has a wonderful long, forward walk. My main goal was to not discourage that or screw it up. I could use her independent “engine” to help me just softly offer a hand that was “there” but following and comfortable to rest on.

The good thing about this long, boring chapter is that now the mare knows that that ride is possible. That is to say, she knows that the contact I offer with my hand (really, with a soft, following elbow and gently closed fist), will be predictable and comfortable. I think I can do as you say: I try to find that feeling of the mare walking up into both hands evenly that we have at the walk in the trot.

I have to say that it’s something I have to develop, not usually where she starts in the trot. Rather, getting to that gait-- pushing more without pushing herself over one shoulder or the other isn’t as easy as cruising along in equilibrium. Just getting to a swinging rhythmic trot that’s not losing her balance over one shoulder or the other and/or raising her head and rushing a bit-- it takes some tactful riding to help her settle her balance and find the sweet spot where she’s not over-correcting for starting to loose her balance to one front leg or the other.

Also, I have to go through my own equitation check list of things I might not be doing right (leaning over my hands, making my hips stiff against her down-hillness, reins too long, shoulders rounded, not riding with my belly, or whatever). When I can find a way to ride all lined up “ear, hip, heel” and relaxed in all my leg joints, she finds it easier to balance underneath me.

So far, I have been getting to the trot as I can, and softly trying to fix things until we both find that balanced spot. When she’s there, she’s remarkably consistent in the contact (more so than last year), but I don’t know if her head is curled in behind the vertical. I need someone to video me. Since we have been given time limits for trotting, I don’t worry about anything but cruising along and finding that sweet spot and then staying there for as long as our timed trot interval is. It’s actually mentally very relaxing because I don’t have to decide very much. I just have to feel and improve the trot I’m riding at any given moment.

This mare is so smart and trainable that if I can get to that comfortable place and praise her with my voice or a small scratch on the withers (that doesn’t involve me moving too much, lol), I think she knows that’s the right answer and does it again.

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#9

Don’t over-supple, ride correctly and forward. They are no different except you have to be very correct with your timing, seat. aids.
DO NOT RUSH, repeat, DO NOT RUSH. Going over tempo will kill your contact and balance. Get the horse under your seat with 500 transitions a day, halt/walk, walk/trot, trot/halt, canter/walk.

Shoulder fore W-H, T-W, are your friend too when the horse is ready.

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#10

I rode a National Show horse who was a lot like this. I do think it’s the more common version of “special Arabian problems” than what my mare has. FWIW, I improved that horse and reversed a very, very “upside down” neck. But thinking about things now, I think I would fix that wiggliness and behind-the-legness a little differently. The National Show horse would tolerate being out of balance in a way that this mare won’t.

#11

This sounds exactly like the ArabX I was riding - it’s just he was built a little differently behind the saddle.

You need to be careful about running them over tempo - but first you have to send them forward off the leg into a light contact and close all the doors left to right of the shoulders and hips and then the longitudinal parameters. If you are struggling getting all the pieces aligned, put your leg on and see if she’s honest. Say she goes over tempo - just relax the core and relax your posting and she should settle back in. But really with these wiggly horses with a noodle neck and a lightning fast brain, slowing their tempo and trying to straighten them gives them way too long to think (and we riders usually start using our hands to straighten them…).

Agree with the transitions from above - those will test the honesty off the leg.

#12

Thanks so much. All that I can do.

This whole topic about “not over tempo” has come up with a few horses I have ridden or met recently. Previous to that, I was more focused on “ride from leg to hand,” even when that usually meant “more forward.” I see how that could amount to making my little horse’s balance problem worse, not better. And it’s new for me to think about keeping this horse aligned, front and back. I’m going to finally learn what it feels like to keep the neck always even between the shoulders because this horse requires it more than any other I can remember riding.

#13

This is an interesting point - with my mare, moving the hind end has been the way to get her balance where I wanted. She always found haunches in/out easy, and moving them helped contact and neck issues.

That idea of the reaching hunter is quite what you need on a horse who wants to ball itself up. As she lengthens her body/neck, her stride will also lengthen and back will be able to move more freely. No you don’t want to get low as some hunters go, but a really nice hunter is in a nice level or slightly uphill balance. If your mare can handle it well, two point can even be very useful. My mare has a very strong preference to be ridden off seat rather than legs, so two point wasn’t a huge option for us for quite some time. As we’re getting her more sensitive and reactive at this point, I ride in two point and she swings her back more on her tighter days.

As far as flexibility of the base of the neck - when do you want that? You want elasticity in the contact and the ability to change and adjust posture, to lengthen and shorten strides… but in what movement, ever, is bending at the base of the neck a positive? Flexion is at the poll. Bend is in the ribcage. Especially with a horse who doesn’t naturally lift the sternum, you want to build the ability to lift while at the same time keeping the forward/back elasticity.

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#14

My Arab gelding did a VERY good job of teaching me the importance of the outside rein (and continues to do the same for my students). Because of the length and natural “bendiness” in their necks it is very easy to “rip their heads off” their shoulders and get them overbent and falling over the outside shoulder. For my students I tell then to think of “leg-yielding” in the direction they want to go to keep him straighter in his body and the energy traveling through uninterrupted. Getting overbent is like putting a kink in the hose, it blocks the energy from traveling forward. As another noted they get extra wiggly when behind the leg because the energy has to go somewhere and if it isn’t going forward in front of the leg, it’s noodles around behind it.

I almost think of them as you might a person with hyper mobile joints. The goal is to strengthen the stabilizing muscles around the joints as has already suggested. There isn’t a whole lot of worry about getting them too stiff so long as you check in to be sure when you ask they give softly and smoothly.

I personally prefer a horse to be able to bend and turn independently, meaning that bending the nose to one side does not equate to stepping in that direction. It’s easier sometimes teaching an overly bendy horse to come into the outside rein and properly carry through the turn than one who pile-drives on their inside shoulder as soon as you ask for an inside bend.

So long as the vet approves I think some very basic lateral work would help restrengthen the stifle starting at the stand still with turn on the forehand with just flexion at the poll and progressing to walking and asking for single steps under the rider’s weight and building to leg yield, shoulder-in, etc. at the walk before doing the same in the trot.

So far as judging whether the head is behind the vertical, typically if the poll is the highest point the front plane of the face is either at or in front of the verticle. This should ultimately be felt rather than looking at the back of the horse’s head, but we all start somewhere.

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#15

Ride back to front, but never past the seat, so they fall over the fulcrum of the sternum onto the forehand. this also causes them to go deep and BTV.
Yes, they need leg and go, but at a tempo correct for balance.

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#16

So the idea with the shoulder fore move is to keep her neck and shoulders connected and straight? The idea is that I get her to move her shoulders left or right off the track and create flexibility with them, but not with any over-bending in the neck?

#17

Yes, don’t overbend in the neck - in no way does that help you.

Shoulder fore is about many things: preparation for shoulder in, of course, which positions the body such that they take a deeper step with the inside hind and thereby strengthen that leg and engage the abs; it is also a basic building block exercise that says, “here, put your body in the position that my aids guide you to” so that when you move up to more and more advanced work, you are developing a system/language for the horse to understand. It is like starting to put words together to form sentences. This is a first sentence. Then you’ll build to more complex sentences and then string them together in small paragraphs and then eventually you’ll be able to tell a story.

I agree with the comments by CERT about a horse with a noodly neck teaching you how to really use the inside-leg-to-outside-rein. Once you get overbent in the neck, you’ve lost a lot - forward momentum, rideability, straightness (obviously), balance, tempo, etc. It makes the job more difficult for everyone.

Though my pony is not an Arab, she is smaller hony-sized and compact like an Arab. A big thing I’ve learned from her is to not let myself get into my more forward seat. If my upper body balance is too far forward then I’m throwing off her balance and it makes things more difficult, especially at the canter where she would tend to get balled-up and bouncy instead of forward.

#18

Thank you, that’s all very clear… at least, I can picture (or rather “imagine the feel of riding this”) when you say it and I think of trotting on my mare.

I agree with the “turn with a tad of leg-yield and make sure you can feel the outside rein.” I had been a little chicken to do that with that injured/weak stifle on the inside. But desperation and a dose of “meh… eff it… I don’t wanna ride crooked forever” prevailed and I’d ask for a step or two. The good news is that this earned us a more balanced turn and the mare started to understand that a better ride was possible. She is straighter now and easier to correct, so I don’t actually have to ride her in a real, long or energetic leg yield.

Also, thanks for the idea about ways to ease into straightening that stifle with a Turn on the forehand in hand. This mare had to spend so much time in hand (and had to be very, very controlled in the beginning) so she got a big, long education in high-end ground work. Of course we only walked and walked in straight lines, but this mare learned to stay very soft and obedient in-hand. It has paid off in so many ways! One of those is my ability to carefully and slowly “ride her” in hand, or in other words, to let me put her body exactly where I want it, one step at a time in hand.

When it’s time to do things like load that hind end or have this mare use that stifle more aggressively with things like hills or cavalletti or backing up, I’ll probably do that in-hand first so that she doesn’t have to carry my weight as well.

On the head position thing. From her back, do you think that I can just ride with the intention of having her poll the highest point and assume that the rest of her head and neck are in the posture they need to be? I understand that she’ll want to get behind the vertical a bit because she’s so weak. But I’m just looking for something I can see from her back that’s a sign of “good enough.” I think I can feel her balance and I can feel when she has telescoped her neck out from the base enough that she gets more stable and consistent in the shoulders. Or rather, when she’s using the base of her neck, she feels like she’s in my and and there’s less side-to-side wobbliness in her shoulders. If she does take a step to the side (starting to fall like a wheelbarrow), I can fix it by putting my belly/hip bone out over the opposite front leg on the next rise in my posting trot. She likes this subtle, body-based correction.

#19

Thank you for the education. I do know what a “too low” hunter feels like vs. the one whose neck is extended but still reaching up and out. This mare (and I suspect all weak, downhill babies) really would rather me ride with an upright body.

In HunterWorld, I was taught how to teach horses to lengthen or shorten their stride (but not change speed) by bringing my shoulders forward or back/closing- or opening my hip angle. This small, unbalanced mare especially reminds me how much influence my upper body has over a horse’s center of gravity. All that means that I can’t yet ride her in a two-point without her going faster because she feels like she’s falling forward and running to keep up with that. What she really wants is my body straight up, but relaxed joints from ankle to hip. If I can get that balanced myself and soften everything, she digs it. So hard to be the “adult in the room” who needs to relax everything while in balance for a second, even if I know we’ll lose it soon. But I have to teach her that there is a “sweet spot” to be found right underneath my center of gravity, so that has to be still and come with a soft seat that allows her back to move. It’s hard! I always want to tighten my hips to stabilize my own body.

I will bet, however, that when she’s stronger (and educated to know she will be safe/comfortable if she stays under my center of gravity), she will accept and like a two-point as OK in terms of a more forward balance for us, but downright groovey because I’m off her back and she can move it.

I think our horses sound similar. We haven’t gotten far enough (this year or last) to try any haunches work as opposed to moving the shoulders, so I can’t tell you if that will be easier for her or not. I’m not an educated enough dressage rider to make a prediction based on what I have felt and trained so far.

#20

I would think of 2 things to check if she’s curled.
Is she “taking the reins” from you? An instructor I rode with on the ArabX said it should feel like you are holding a tray in your hands and someone is just grasping the other side to take it from you - not pulling but has made a connection and is about to take the weight of it out of your hands. It helped me to think about “pushing” the contact to the horse rather than reeling it in and creating a curled neck.

And the other thing to check is can you “feel” the topline from the poll to the tail? If she’s too closed and curled, there will be a block either right at the withers or behind the saddle (hind legs are out). I would think the easiest way to check this is offer a stretch and see if her balance is good enough to do so without speeding up or putting her nose between her knees.

I think you are educated enough, but I’m wary of just thinking about “poll the highest point” because it often means the neck gets too long and the horse starts tensing/using the under neck or base of the neck. If you have an uncertain moment, for sure do an upwards HH, let the neck out, and then reset the contact to make sure she’s not behind the vertical.

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