Arabian Sport Horse Shows-- eligibility?

[mvp]

Never thought I’d say this, but I’m about to buy a Half-Arabian and I want the option of showing her in Arabian Sport Horse shows.

She just needs to be registered with the AHA, right?

I ask because I’m not sure I understood this right from the sellers, but they say she is registered with the AHA. Her sire is a WB and the dam is their backyard mare. I think they said her parentage was unknown. I’m not sure how that makes that mare or her babies eligible for the kind of registration I need.

Anyone an expert on this? Or can you send me in the right direction? Do I just call up the AHA?

[oldernewbie]

One parent must be a registered Arabian (unless we’re talking Anglo Arabs, which we are not). I don’t know how her parentage can be unknown yet her dam registered with AHA?? Or how the dam’s parentage can be unknown and these people think the offspring is registerable? Something’s not right.

If Ma (in this case, since Pa is alleged to be a WB) isn’t a registered purebred, you can’t register her offspring as half-Arabian.

Get this cleared up with the sellers and AHA before you plunk down any cash! Otherwise you’ve got a nice grade horse aka not eligible for Sport Horse Nationals for sure.

[SportArab]

As the poster above said. One parent must be purebred registered with the AHA (except in the case of Anglos). If the sire is a warmblood then the dam must be a purebred with papers if the horse is to have AHA papers.

I’d ask to see the papers.

I have several half Arabians registered with the AHA that are by Warmblood stallions and out of Arabian mares. I got them registered Oldenberg and at the time the AHA had a special deal for half Arabians that were registered with other orgs.

[twotrudoc]

mvp, go to ABN http://forums.arabianbreeders.net/

for your registration questions. And yes, if you are registered with AHA you are eligible for Sport Horse.

Also, Allanglos from here knows all about getting registered, you can message her on Facebook or on her website

http://www.allanglos.net/

Tell her I sent you.

AND PICS PLEASE!!!

AND COME TO THE PRAHA SHOW IN APRIL!!!

http://www.pacificrimarabianhorseassn.com/index.html

[enjoytheride]

If you have a purebred registered arab and you breed it to a purebred UNregistered arab you can register that horse as a half arab but not as a purebred arab even though it is.

My mare is 7/8 arab and she is still registered as a half arab.

So ask to see her papers, her dam would need to be a registered arab or half arab but her sire could be anything even if it wasn’t registered.

[SportArab]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;7796371]
If you have a purebred registered arab and you breed it to a purebred UNregistered arab you can register that horse as a half arab but not as a purebred arab even though it is.

My mare is 7/8 arab and she is still registered as a half arab.

So ask to see her papers, her dam would need to be a registered arab or half arab but her sire could be anything even if it wasn’t registered.[/QUOTE]

Half Arab registration on the dam won’t be enough. Dam must be purebred Arabian if sire is not.

[JBD]

I own 2 half Arabs, both registered and shown. One has a registered arabian sire and a Arab/Saddlebred dam, the other has a Paint sire and registered arabian dam.
Ask to see the papers.

[AmarachAcres]

I can’t get hold of my mare’s papers, is there an option for showing non papered horses?

Checking out the facebook.

[QUOTE=twotrudoc;7795943]
mvp, go to ABN http://forums.arabianbreeders.net/

for your registration questions. And yes, if you are registered with AHA you are eligible for Sport Horse.

Also, Allanglos from here knows all about getting registered, you can message her on Facebook or on her website

http://www.allanglos.net/

Tell her I sent you.

AND PICS PLEASE!!!

AND COME TO THE PRAHA SHOW IN APRIL!!!

http://www.pacificrimarabianhorseassn.com/index.html[/QUOTE]

[findeight]

[QUOTE=AmarachAcres;7796586]
I can’t get hold of my mare’s papers, is there an option for showing non papered horses?

Checking out the facebook. :)[/QUOTE]

Open shows? Shown at half a dozen different breed’s shows and they all want papers, including AHA.

[oldernewbie]

@twotrudoc;7795943

mvp, go to ABN http://forums.arabianbreeders.net/

for your registration questions. And yes, if you are registered with AHA you are eligible for Sport Horse.

I love the folks on ABN and visit/post there often. However, I would go straight to the source - the registration department at AHA - for registration advice/information. Not that the folks at ABN don’t know their stuff, but getting the word directly from the association is a lot more reassuring, especially if you are about to spend $$$$ (or even $!).

Ditto the lost papers. Some of the time AHA can help. It’s worth a phone call to see if they can do anything for you. It seems to me that some folks have been successful at getting a horse’s papers, maybe after a lot of legwork, but they were able to do it. Give it a shot!

[copper1]

One of course can show any horse in open shows without papers but at any breed show, one must have papers to prove it is that breed. See the papers before you buy!
If she is registered then you need to have the papers changed into your name well before your first show. Owner, trainer, and rider must all be members of AHA and USEF or pay the non member fees per show which can quickly add up to membership, especially if you are an amateur. You must be a member to show at championship shows.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=SportArab;7796403]
Half Arab registration on the dam won’t be enough. Dam must be purebred Arabian if sire is not.[/QUOTE]

The dam is full-blooded Arabian, I believe.

But to be clear. Her daughter, the Arabian/WB mare I’m buying can’t produce AHA-eligible babies if she’s bred to a non-Arabian.

So the half-arab people have kind of a mule thing going on? If you got a great half-arabian sport horse mare or stallion, she/he isn’t useful for breeding the next generation using non-Arabians?

[twotrudoc]

[QUOTE=oldernewbie;7796712]
I love the folks on ABN and visit/post there often. However, I would go straight to the source - the registration department at AHA - for registration advice/information. Not that the folks at ABN don’t know their stuff, but getting the word directly from the association is a lot more reassuring, especially if you are about to spend $$$$ (or even $!).

Ditto the lost papers. Some of the time AHA can help. It’s worth a phone call to see if they can do anything for you. It seems to me that some folks have been successful at getting a horse’s papers, maybe after a lot of legwork, but they were able to do it. Give it a shot![/QUOTE]

While I have nothing but good experiences with AHA (including the group who did SHN 2014, WAY TO GO on one awesome show!!!) I have hard that they can be frustrating to deal with with registration issues such as lost papers, etc. I recommend ABN as a starting place as those folks have been there and done that and can outline the steps to take to resolve the issue.

[twotrudoc]

[QUOTE=mvp;7797135]
The dam is full-blooded Arabian, I believe.

But to be clear. Her daughter, the Arabian/WB mare I’m buying can’t produce AHA-eligible babies if she’s bred to a non-Arabian.

So the half-arab people have kind of a mule thing going on? If you got a great half-arabian sport horse mare or stallion, she/he isn’t useful for breeding the next generation using non-Arabians?[/QUOTE]

Kind of, with TB it gets different. Talk to Laura, she knows all the ins and outs.

[Halt_Near_X]

[QUOTE=mvp;7797135]
So the half-arab people have kind of a mule thing going on? If you got a great half-arabian sport horse mare or stallion, she/he isn’t useful for breeding the next generation using non-Arabians?[/QUOTE]

She’s not useful for breeding more Arabians, no [if bred to a non-Arab stallion]. The Arabian blood is just going to be more diluted and the resulting offspring are going to move further and further from breed standards. Especially since there are no inspections/controls on what the “half” part in Half Arabians are, so the quality is all over the place. It makes no sense for the AHA to support that sort of ongoing/divergent breeding.

If it’s a really nice horse, you can always get it approved in another registry (RPSI/Old NA/etc) and breed that way.

Anglo Arabians are a different story, but IIRC there is a minimum percentage of Arabian blood that they must have, or they are no longer considered Anglo Arabs.

[oldernewbie]

[QUOTE=mvp;7797135]
The dam is full-blooded Arabian, I believe.

But to be clear. Her daughter, the Arabian/WB mare I’m buying can’t produce AHA-eligible babies if she’s bred to a non-Arabian.

So the half-arab people have kind of a mule thing going on? If you got a great half-arabian sport horse mare or stallion, she/he isn’t useful for breeding the next generation using non-Arabians?[/QUOTE]

I don’t want to be overly dramatic about this but… some, I don’t know how many, BN Arab breeders have a bad habit of culling their horses by sending them to a local auction without papers. This is not a popular approach in many Arab circles but it happens. Why am I bringing this up? Your horse’s dam may indeed be full blooded, but if she hasn’t got papers in good order, your horse is not registerable. That is why I and others are encouraging you to view the papers of the horse you are considering or her dam. Otherwise, no matter what the sellers say, you are quite honestly SCREWED if you buy her and then try to register her, only to find out her dam’s alleged full bloodedness won’t stand up to AHA’s scrutiny. Be a smart buyer and do what we are suggesting.

As to your second point, yes, you can breed the next generation if a) you get the mare approved in a warmblood registry or b) you breed her to a purebred Arabian sport horse stallion, for example. Trakheners are a perfect example of a) and there are many many great part Arab show horses that are more than 50% Arab, created by breeding back to purebreds. The one thing you can’t do is breed 1/2 arab to 1/2 arab or 1/2 arab to WB and register it with AHA. (Unless you are breeding Anglos which you aren’t in this example.)

Please trust but verify on this sale. There are people out there who are ignorant of AHA’s registration rules or who are, unfortunately, possibly trying to take advantage of you. I don’t know which camp your sellers might belong to. Be careful!

[MyssMyst]

[QUOTE=oldernewbie;7797250]
I don’t want to be overly dramatic about this but… some, I don’t know how many, BN Arab breeders have a bad habit of culling their horses by sending them to a local auction without papers. This is not a popular approach in many Arab circles but it happens. Why am I bringing this up? Your horse’s dam may indeed be full blooded, but if she hasn’t got papers in good order, your horse is not registerable. That is why I and others are encouraging you to view the papers of the horse you are considering or her dam. Otherwise, no matter what the sellers say, you are quite honestly SCREWED if you buy her and then try to register her, only to find out her dam’s alleged full bloodedness won’t stand up to AHA’s scrutiny. Be a smart buyer and do what we are suggesting.

As to your second point, yes, you can breed the next generation if a) you get the mare approved in a warmblood registry or b) you breed her to a purebred Arabian sport horse stallion, for example. Trakheners are a perfect example of a) and there are many many great part Arab show horses that are more than 50% Arab, created by breeding back to purebreds. The one thing you can’t do is breed 1/2 arab to 1/2 arab or 1/2 arab to WB and register it with AHA. (Unless you are breeding Anglos which you aren’t in this example.)

Please trust but verify on this sale. There are people out there who are ignorant of AHA’s registration rules or who are, unfortunately, possibly trying to take advantage of you. I don’t know which camp your sellers might belong to. Be careful![/QUOTE]

This. I know a few people who have been struggling to get papers on their Arabs who were previously culled, and it’s impossible. Definitely insist on seeing the papers first.

[SportArab]

[QUOTE=mvp;7797135]
The dam is full-blooded Arabian, I believe.

But to be clear. Her daughter, the Arabian/WB mare I’m buying can’t produce AHA-eligible babies if she’s bred to a non-Arabian.

So the half-arab people have kind of a mule thing going on? If you got a great half-arabian sport horse mare or stallion, she/he isn’t useful for breeding the next generation using non-Arabians?[/QUOTE]

Totally depends. Two years ago I brought my half Arabian (half Hanovarian) mare at age 6 to GOV inspection hoping to get her Oldenberg papers. She didn’t get them originally because my life had become a total trainwreck in the year I needed to bring her for inspection to get papers - so I got her half Arab papers.

The inspector said the half Arab papers were sufficient to get her inspected for inclusion into the Studbooks. I’m sure it helped that her dam had been inspected and approved.

But clearly it is a possibility to have a half Arabian half Warmblood and then get approved for breeding by one of the Warmblood registries.

[SportArab]

Oh, and yes, there is no way to get her offspring registered with AHA unless you breed to an Arabian stallion.

The rules are clear. A half Arabian must have one purebred parent.

The rules for Anglos are different. You may have no less than 25 percent of either breed and no more than 75 percent.