"Are Boy Points Real?" chronicle article

[vxf111]

What I find particularly irksome about the attitude that “male riders should get an extra bump in their subjective scores due to rarity” is that while male riders may be less common IN EQUITATION CLASSES, they are not the minority in GENERAL LIFE and therefore the idea that a group who already benefits from the privilege of being the majority should also benefit from the privilege of being a minority in some circles is infuriating. Getting a leg up in virtually EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF LIFE ISN’T ENOUGH? Men need a leg up AGAIN in one of the few sports where men and women play on the same playing field???

And I bet you the same judges don’t give “minority points.” They don’t see a rider of color and think “that’s unusual, I should judge that rider more favorably.” Probably the opposite due to conscious or unconscious bias. A rider of color stands out as “not belonging” a male rider stands out as being “someone we want to encourage.” Do these same judges give bonus points for groups that are either the minority in our discipline (riders whose parents aren’t rich or themselves connected to the equine world) or in the population more broadly (racial and ethnic minorities)? I doubt it.

[Pokerface]

@NoSuchPerson

So what? This isn’t Pulitzer Prize journalism. This article is an opinion piece and it does a perfectly good job of showcasing the opinions of certain upper level trainers and judges, which is valuable information.

Because all this article did was prop up the sexist ideas we live in on a daily basis and validate them?

[emeraldcity]

Ok, yes. But just because the man/boy doesn’t cry, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the emotion- he’s been taught not to cry. You’ll just see the emotion expressed in some other (often more destructive) way.

Maybe if someone is at the point of tears in their lesson, it’s better that you know and can deal with whatever is causing that.

Or bring the lesson down to a level they can deal with on that day.

We’re not robots… men AND women should be allowed to have emotions.

[RAyers]

Exactly. So then to say my experience is invalid is to dismiss my perspective. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Those who seek equity should also practice equity.

Photo to show why I never won or even placed in an equitation or medal (even though I did all of them in my juniors). Hence why I went to the jumpers and eventers.

[NoSuchPerson]

@Pokerface

Because all this article did was prop up the sexist ideas we live in on a daily basis and validate them?

Again, so what? Certain upper level trainers and judges shared their opinions. That’s all. There was no “propping up” or “validating.” This was, again, an opinion piece, not a piece of fact-based investigative journalism. You can choose to agree with them or disagree with them and COTH very nicely provides this forum for us to do just that.

And to continue to beat the dead horse, there is absolutely nothing wrong with COTH publishing an article in which certain trainers and judges share their opinions on a certain subject. There is all kinds of wrong with you(g) demanding that COTH not publish an article that shares those opinions just because you(g) don’t like the opinions.

[Pokerface]

Who is DEMANDING anything? I said the article was biased. It asked a question and only answered it from the perspective of “no, boy points aren’t a valid argument”

[coffeehag]

@RAyers

Exactly. So then to say my experience is invalid is to dismiss my perspective. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Those who seek equity should also practice equity.

Actually, no one has said your experience is invalid. You are being told that while your experience is valid (see NUMEROUS comments) it is a drop in a bucket to what women experience on a daily basis and your experience doesn’t get to erase that of women.

You can’t ask for equity when, based on your comments, you’re not extending a hand to raise women up.

Everyone in these comments are, in fact, saying that men who are good riders deserve to place, but that they shouldn’t place simply because they are men. If that’s what you’re comprehending I’d encourage you to go back and re read.

[Midge]

And yet, you look remarkably like this photo:

[coffeehag]

@vxf111

And I bet you the same judges don’t give “minority points.” They don’t see a rider of color and think “that’s unusual, I should judge that rider more favorably.” Probably the opposite due to conscious or unconscious bias. A rider of color stands out as “not belonging” a male rider stands out as being “someone we want to encourage.” Do these same judges give bonus points for groups that are either the minority in our discipline (riders whose parents aren’t rich or themselves connected to the equine world) or in the population more broadly (racial and ethnic minorities)? I doubt it.

Uffda this is another can of worms that CotH is nowhere near prepared to answer for, but also a very valid point.

[mika0116]

Note I said US and English tack I do my best to be specific as COTH likes to jump all over generalizations.

I am well aware of how other countries and cultures view horsefolk as the epitome of ideal qualities. The article was US equitation based and that is why I commented the above…

US culture is strange and annoyingly “othering” of people into horses especially English style sports.

[sportyspicepony]

@NoSuchPerson

I also don’t get all of you people blasting COTH for printing the article. If this is the way judges and trainers think, don’t you want to know about it? Don’t you want those stereotypes and opinions out in the light of day where we can all see them and discuss them? How do you expect to bring about change if you don’t understand what’s behind the things you’re concerned about?

Because the article published these points of view uncritically, without offering any alternative POVs.

[sportyspicepony]

@NoSuchPerson

Again, so what? Certain upper level trainers and judges shared their opinions. That’s all. There was no “propping up” or “validating.” This was, again, an opinion piece, not a piece of fact-based investigative journalism. You can choose to agree with them or disagree with them and COTH very nicely provides this forum for us to do just that.

And to continue to beat the dead horse, there is absolutely nothing wrong with COTH publishing an article in which certain trainers and judges share their opinions on a certain subject. There is all kinds of wrong with you(g) demanding that COTH not publish an article that shares those opinions just because you(g) don’t like the opinions.

Because by presenting these points of view of these judges and trainers UNCRITICALLY, with no alternatives noted, COTH very much is propping up and validating these ideas. And I would think in 2022 that we’ve moved past the point of well known publications spreading ideas that are ignorant, sexist and outdated, so yeah they never should’ve published this article. It’s weird that you think it’s not ok to criticize them for that. Would you rather everyone just accept it and move on?

[Night_Flight]

I think it would have been interesting if the article had done some side-by-side photos of the winners and lower-placed riders for comparison. Obviously it wouldn’t be able to show the differences in feel, softness, etc., but I’m often surprised at how some male riders place very well in the equitation despite comparatively loose lower legs and poor posture (though obviously there are some male riders who do show exceptional form over fences).

[RAyers]

But aren’t we only discussing equitation? This is not some massive reflection of society in general given that the people who compete in this discipline are in the top 10% or income earners and are predominant white. If equitation were to disappear today nobody would notice or care.

Equating the issues in equitation is a false equivalency to the general state of society given that the population who competes does not reflect the actual population. As folks noted here, the numbers are very skewed.

[RAyers]

I would rather the membership actually seek change than expect the governing body make the change. So the question is, what have you done to change the sport?

[sportyspicepony]

Does equitation somehow exist outside of society? No

[sportyspicepony]

??? weird question… I’m talking about Chronicle of the Horse, not the governing body. I never have and never will compete in equitation lol

[CBoylen]

Only a very, very small part of judging equitation is about form. A still comparison is next to meaningless.

[kirbydog]

Some girls will cry when things don’t go the way they want. I know this as a fact.
I never make a lesson easy. I do not make it dangerous, but I am paid to teach people how to ride. Nor would I ever stoop to the GM level of personally insulting someone. Good trainers don’t do that. If your lessons are easy, you aren’t learning anything… And yes, you should be allowed to have emotions, but not when you are riding. Riding isn’t about your feelings, it’s about your horse, his feelings, and your ability to communicate with him in a language that he understands and doesn’t stress him. Once tears are involved, there is a communication break down rider to horse. When the tears start, I simply tell the kid to go walk around for a few minutes and take a breath.
Riding is difficult. Ask anyone who does any discipline at a high level

[kirbydog]

I would be thrilled to have someone with that level of balance and correctness! Pretty is as pretty does