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"Are Boy Points Real?" chronicle article

This is ridiculous. I don’t doubt that as a young boy you faced name calling and shitty behavior from fellow boys. But let’s not sit here and pretend that young girls don’t face the exact same thing from fellow girls and boys. I cannot tell you the number of times fellow students, from grade school to college made jokes that varied from making horse sounds to the more profane, crude jokes about “what else do you ride” and “you must like horses because of the size of their c*ck.”

This, of course, is compounded by the social pressure young women face to be thin which is hammered home by their trainers.

That you feel that boys are more motivated than girls is ludicrous and, frankly, utterly false.

**

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You can’t make universal statements based on your sample size of one. I carry a chip on my shoulder because I was part of a very posh pony club but I was poor, rode a scraggly rescue horse that the snobby kids literally spat on, and peed my sleeping bag because I was so bullied I was afraid to get up and use the bathroom in the middle of the night. That’s MY experience, but I’m not gonna sit here and make generalizations that all poor kids are more motivated to make it. Tons drop out. I didn’t, but I’m just one.

Our stories say more about the culture of privilege in gender and wealth than they say about the intrinsic qualities of being poor, or being male.

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These kind of articles are the reason I ended my subscription a few years back. I don’t think COTH is doing a public service. They’re not taking a stand. Instead, they are giving a platform to certain people—often the same ones—to spew their stupid theories, and then sit back while the attention brings some advertising dollars. Plus, an article filled with non-journalists’ comments means that COTH doesn’t have to pay actual journalists to write actual articles.

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No, you cannot tell me that all boys are more motivated than all girls are at that age. Do you genuinely not realize how absurd that is?

I could MAYBE agree that the average motivation level of the entire population of teenage male riders is higher than the average motivation level of the entire population of teen female riders, simply because the less motivated male riders self-select out in a way the female riders don’t. I’d say the same thing about the reverse situation as well - a few girls joined the wrestling team when I was in high school, stuck with it, and were far more motivated than most of their male peers. Because they were the odd ones out, so why would they stick with it if they weren’t incredibly motivated?

But to say male riders are more motivated than the girls at that age in general? No. I don’t think Jacob Pope was more motivated than Lillie Keenan, or that Sam Walker was more motivated than Ava Stearns, or that Luke Jensen is more motivated than Augusta Iwasaki.

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I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that I don’t think you understand how journalism actually works.

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Thank you coffeehag for all of this. I read the article earlier today and was speechless, hoping that I would find the words to describe how I feel about all of it, and have still been unable to articulate anything through my disbelief and anger. I agree with every word of your post, and I thank you for writing it.

I’m flabbergasted that someone at COTH came up with the idea of this article and someone else gave it the thumbs up, and it’s even more incredulous that they so easily found this many well known officials/trainers to participate in the sexism that gave rise to the finished product. WTF?

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How people many have communicated their opinions, about the article and the views expressed by judges, to the magazine editors?

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I think it is true that men who compete or participate in activities stereotyped as “girly” (ballet, cooking, the arts) can undeniably face bullying and homophobic jokes and prejudice. I’ve seen it myself, even today.

But paradoxically, although it used to be unheard of for boys to say, take home economics, most professional kitchens were still hyper-masculine environments and most professional chefs were male. Boys often had to fight their own families to be in ballet classes, but once trained, they often do have an easier time as pros getting principal roles and get more support coming up the ranks, simply because there are a need for men in certain roles and fewer men ogling for parts. The same is also true in acting–more male roles, yet fewer men training and trying to be actors, and outside the profession a stereotype that the arts are effeminate and bullying, yet inside the profession, often it’s easier to actually make a go of it professionally.

So both can be true. Men can face challenges. But there can also be the attitude of “ooh, a man,” and in the case of equestrian sports, not only is there the novelty aspect there is also the sense the sport gets “legitimacy” (IMHO) if more boys participate at the lower levels.

As a writer, I’ve often regretted I didn’t use an androgynous pen name, as many women do, and in the writing classes I took, although my teachers were often men and the reading lists of my classes full of male authors, there was still emphasis on “encouraging” men to stick with it, because the classes were predominantly female.

It’s frustrating as a woman to work hard and to see that hard work seen as less valuable and constantly questioned and cheapened from the get-go, because it’s more common to see women in your profession.

Regarding actual judging in the equitation, I’d have to disagree first and foremost by O’Hara about women looking more elegant. Jacob Pope is one of the most elegant riders I’ve ever seen IMHO, as well as incredibly sensitive and quiet, and didn’t even come from a professionally horsey family or “money,” just took advantage of many great programs and opportunities.

But T.J. O’Mara’s siblings all rode, and he had unheard-of advantages of many of us will never have, and is incredibly tall and thin drapes over a horse, and it’s much easier for such riders (often men) to look quiet on a horse IMHO than say, short women like Taylor St. Jacques.

I think that any sport judged on the rider like equitation–which is its own weird American thing–is going to run up more against judging bias to “keep men in the sport,” as well as physical bias in favor of a certain physique that can often be easier for teenage boys to achieve.

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We really don’t need the male perspective in this discussion at all lol like of course if you ask a man he doesn’t think he has any advantages…

I do think there is judging bias in these subjective riding disciplines, but even that only applies to those who can actually make it to the show ring in the first place.

A lot has to line up in someone’s financial and life circumstances in order for them to even be able to compete at these equitation finals, especially NOW that horses are much more expensive than they were in the past.

The boys that are showing in these classes and doing well have already won the lottery of societal privilege by being male, probably white and probably wealthy. So it’s hilarious for COTH to then conclude that nope, all top eq winners made it there on the basis of their own merit and horsemanship and talent!

Like yes of course they are talented, but that talent is combined with the many privileges and opportunities that allowed them to get a leg up above their peers to compete at a high level. So it stands to reason that those who started out with more advantages, aka men, have been able to reach success easier.

Also, it’s a well recorded phenomenon that [white] men are rewarded disproportionately for mediocre performance in the workplace and in schools. They don’t even have to be excellent, but their female and minority peers have to work harder to achieve the same recognition, and I think we’ve all seen examples of that play out in real time. So it’s believable to me that men would not only have an easier time of making it to the top in these competitions but also that there is gendered bias present in the judging.

Literally nothing about competing horses is fair bc of how much money is required though, let’s be real!

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Or, It didn’t happen to me so it doesn’t happen.

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I’m slightly off topic as always…

I work in a male dominated field. In my group, there are 20 of us (25 if you include supervision), and I am the only women.

I hate using the HR term, but I do like it a lot so I want to share it: “unconscious bias”

Most people are good people. Most people don’t purposely say “I won’t deal with you because your a women”… or “I pinned the man hirer because he’s a man”.

But realistically it happens. I couldn’t tell you the amount of times I’d be mid conversation with a contractor, a male co-worker will enter the room, conversation with me will halt and then tried to be continued with the man who walked in that has no idea what’s going on. Do I think the contractor purposely thinks “well, thank god a man is here?” Not usually, but there is that bias that a man is better.

I like this thread. Sexism is alive and well across all avenues of life. It’s interesting to hear everyone’s views.

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I got teased relentlessly all through school for being the “pony girl”. I think it happened on both sides.

The language in this article is appalling. Shame on CoTH for publishing this. I honestly am speechless at some of the quotes in there.

Horse Twitter is doing a number on the article.

I really can’t just get over this article, awful.

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Several people on Twitter are tagging Coth in their comments. So while not to the editor, much more public.

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I can’t get over the irony that in a subjective sport (equitation) where the adolescent male body is the ideal everyone aspires to achieve, we are questioning why males win disproportionately.

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You just described what the rest of us go through all the time — not for carrying English tack near a rodeo but for having breasts and vaginas or darker skin pretty much everywhere.

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Amen. How many discussions have there been about eating disorders among teen girl riders attempting to achieve that oh-so-desirable androgynous physique?

I also don’t get all of you people blasting COTH for printing the article. If this is the way judges and trainers think, don’t you want to know about it? Don’t you want those stereotypes and opinions out in the light of day where we can all see them and discuss them? How do you expect to bring about change if you don’t understand what’s behind the things you’re concerned about?

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Yeah, I think the article outlined pretty common, often unconscious thinking patterns in female-dominated industries.

Women: “Ooh, a man, I need to encourage him! It’s important to have men–especially manly, heterosexual men–encouraged, so our profession/sport is taken more seriously.”

Men: “He’s a man, like me, I need to mentor/ favorably judge him.”

So you do get this cycle of thinking in both the minds of women as well as men that can make it easier for men to get ahead. Throw in the physical aspect in equitation where very thin and tall is the ideal (which I do grant also disadvantages many male bodies as well, of otherwise highly capable male riders), making it easier for teenage boys who enter puberty later to fulfill that ideal.

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Maybe because they didn’t speak to anyone with a differing opinion? Like, we are saying boys get bonus points, but not talking to the girls who may be competing against those boys? It was highly biased reporting at best.

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This I have seen, over and over. Also in my place of work, over the top at work.

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So what? This isn’t Pulitzer Prize journalism. This article is an opinion piece and it does a perfectly good job of showcasing the opinions of certain upper level trainers and judges, which is valuable information.

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