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There are degrees of everything. If the horse jumps over its shoulder slightly, probably no big deal. If he always jumps a foot too high, it probably won’t be the end of the world if he’s consistent about never getting close to the rails. If he does it badly and isn’t particularly careful to begin with? I probably wouldn’t be volunteering to jump him.
Photos?
Not the same as leg hangers but, unless the horse is extremely scopey and not overfaced, can result in trouble when the fences go up and spreads increase. They must over jump to clear and avoid catching a rail with their front end going up and get enough altitude to safely open up p to land going down without knocking a rail down with the front legs, especially over oxers or spreads. Always better to bring a rail down behind so it falls behind you, not in front where you carry it with you possibly landing on it. Catch it with the front could go rotational too.
Thats why it’s considered a fault style wise for Hunters and undesirable in all except the very low divisions in both Hunter and Jumper.
It can be dangerous, especially over a large solid vertical. Not all leg hangers jump over their shoulders, and not all horses that jump over their shoulders are leg hangers. Horses that do both are extremely dangerous.
courtesy of Google images:
Horse that jumps over its shoulder: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k53/madscience100/shoulders.jpg
Horse that hangs its legs: http://localriding.com/image-files/showjumping-position.jpg
Horse that does both: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TXv70sZj-7o/SXTQ3-3DOgI/AAAAAAAAAO0/ubBZrY8G9kw/s400/horse+jump9.gif
[QUOTE=Night Flight;8646178]
There are degrees of everything. If the horse jumps over its shoulder slightly, probably no big deal. If he always jumps a foot too high, it probably won’t be the end of the world if he’s consistent about never getting close to the rails. If he does it badly and isn’t particularly careful to begin with? I probably wouldn’t be volunteering to jump him.
Photos?[/QUOTE]
http://www.judgemyride.net/schooling-ring/rocki.html
thats the link to him jumping. Ive jumped 4’. He’s very very careful about rails. he doesn’t really hang his legs does he?
He jumps similar to a handful of other Arabs I’ve seen, a little tight in the top line and a little over the shoulder. I think part of it is due to their confirmation being more compact, and their tendency to go more upright. He is tidy enough, so no I wouldn’t say dangerous based on this one picture, over one fence at 3 foot, based off of one internet post :lol: but not desirable, and not necessarily something I would want to jump 4 foot on on a regular basis, or trust to get me out of a swimmer if placed to one. Who knows though, the approach and landing make a big difference in evaluating anything. It’s hard to tell off of one picture.
[QUOTE=MtnDrmz;8646286]
He jumps similar to a handful of other Arabs I’ve seen, a little tight in the top line and a little over the shoulder. I think part of it is due to their confirmation being more compact, and their tendency to go more upright. He is tidy enough, so no I wouldn’t say dangerous based on this one picture, over one fence at 3 foot, based off of one internet post :lol: but not desirable, and not necessarily something I would want to jump 4 foot on on a regular basis, or trust to get me out of a swimmer if placed to one. Who knows though, the approach and landing make a big difference in evaluating anything. It’s hard to tell off of one picture.[/QUOTE]
right, he also hasn’t jumped frequently in the last yrs
Is this the dirty stopper? Perhaps the reason he is jumping over his shoulder so much is because you are getting him too deep to the jump and he has no other choice? You’ve said before you have a fear of a horse stopping, so it is not unreasonable to assume that get nervous and bury the horse into the jump, causing him to jump over himself in an effort to get over the jump. Do you have any pictures where he has a good distance to the jump?
You’ve posted a question about this before and got really good advice. Has there been any improvement from then and now?
After looking at your video and some of your other pictures, I’m still going to go with my initial reaction and say that while he doesn’t have the best front end or conformation for jumping, some of it is the way he is ridden to the jump as well. I think it can very easily be a dangerous habit, so I would try some of the advice given to you in your other thread to try to minimize the potential for injury.
[QUOTE=Jarrn;8646357]
Is this the dirty stopper? Perhaps the reason he is jumping over his shoulder so much is because you are getting him too deep to the jump and he has no other choice? You’ve said before you have a fear of a horse stopping, so it is not unreasonable to assume that get nervous and bury the horse into the jump, causing him to jump over himself in an effort to get over the jump. Do you have any pictures where he has a good distance to the jump?[/QUOTE]
its not
It has been my observation that generally horses that jump over their shoulder are horses who need more of a release so as not to block the free extension of their shoulder over the jump , JMHO
1 Like
What Mikes Mcs said. I had a pony (part Arab) that looked like this when anyone buried it to a fence and held it’s head. The horse jumped best when placed at the perfect distance and given a big release. Obviously not ideal because I never trusted the horse to get us out of a sticky situation. The horse had spring in it’s step, but I sold it on to a kid who wanted a short stirrup horse. 2’ was about the only height I felt he was safe to jump.
[QUOTE=rexlen;8646107]
are horses that jump over their shoulder dangerous? [/QUOTE]
Okay, not to butt in with a dumb newbie question, but what exactly does “jumping over the shoulder” mean?
[QUOTE=beau159;8646954]
Okay, not to butt in with a dumb newbie question, but what exactly does “jumping over the shoulder” mean?[/QUOTE]
There are some images above that illustrate pretty well, but basically jumping over the shoulder means the forearms of the horse don’t come fully parallel to the ground. Different from hanging a leg because they may still tuck their legs up well, but their knees point down.
[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;8646672]
It has been my observation that generally horses that jump over their shoulder are horses who need more of a release so as not to block the free extension of their shoulder over the jump , JMHO[/QUOTE]
It can also be a conformational thing. Generally very upright shoulders = jumping over the shoulder.
I wouldn’t be keen to jump that horse 4’, especially if it regularly does that. And I definitely wouldn’t be doing any XC jumps on it.
The horse looks sweet and any horse can have a bad jump, so if it’s a once-off moment in time, no big deal. If this is its normal jumping style, much more concerning.
even then, I’d get trainer assistance before throwing in the towel. Sometimes this kind of thing is fixable with a program of gymnastics and consistent riding. But I sure wouldn’t keep on doing what you are doing and just jumping high fences like this. Accident waiting to happen.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8647094]
I wouldn’t be keen to jump that horse 4’, especially if it regularly does that. And I definitely wouldn’t be doing any XC jumps on it.
The horse looks sweet and any horse can have a bad jump, so if it’s a once-off moment in time, no big deal. If this is its normal jumping style, much more concerning.
even then, I’d get trainer assistance before throwing in the towel. Sometimes this kind of thing is fixable with a program of gymnastics and consistent riding. But I sure wouldn’t keep on doing what you are doing and just jumping high fences like this. Accident waiting to happen.[/QUOTE]
I actually have other pictures of him where is perfectly square. Like I said hes been off from working really hard for about 4 yrs
[QUOTE=Jarrn;8646360]
You’ve posted a question about this before and got really good advice. Has there been any improvement from then and now?
After looking at your video and some of your other pictures, I’m still going to go with my initial reaction and say that while he doesn’t have the best front end or conformation for jumping, some of it is the way he is ridden to the jump as well. I think it can very easily be a dangerous habit, so I would try some of the advice given to you in your other thread to try to minimize the potential for injury.[/QUOTE]
Hhhhhhmmmmmmm The OP poster also used this same picture in that thread as she is now.
OP why do you keep saying that the reason your horse jmps this way and not totally square is because he has been off four four years, but you posted this same picture back in 2014? Also if you horse usually jumps differently other times, why not get a new pic??? This is clearly a concern of your (jumping over the shoulder), but do you think you have not reiceved good feedback previously and that is why you keep asking?
Every picture she has posted of him has him jumping this way. But, he is also buried to the fence in nearly every picture, so it’s not clear to me if that’s the way he jumps or if he is being forced to jump like that. If he jumps like that, then I personally wouldn’t be jumping him very high at all. If he is being forced to jump like that to clear a fence, then the OP should probably go back to crossrails/small verticals and work on distances and getting a balanced approach to the jump. He also seems to rush at fences a bit and isn’t using his hindquarters and is instead leaping at the fence, making it difficult for him to get his legs up correctly.
If he is jumping like this because apparently he has been off for 2+ years (the original photo was posted 2 years ago, so he was only off for about 2 years at the time of that photo), then why are you (OP) jumping him 3ft when he is not fit enough to do so safely? If this is how he jumps because he has been out of work, then he should have been started back at a lower level and worked back up to 3ft in a safe manner.
Do you have any pictures of him jumping square? or of him jumping from a better distance?
