Are mares really worth it?

[GraceLikeRain]

@Hippolyta

Females can’t get a break, even if you are a horse

Preach. I feel like mares get all of these awful labels. Meanwhile the gelding is double front leg pawing, ripping things off the wall, and being a general dingbat and gets labeled as having “character”.

Specific to the OP, I feel like I’ve been preaching Warwick Schiller lately but he has some great stuff on subtle body language and connection. I think that horses who feel unheard can get really sour even when their physical needs are met. Worst case, you gain nothing by doing some of the connection work.

[sascha]

@sportyspicepony

I’m also a big believer in bribing my animals to love me with food… and this doesn’t mean showering her with undeserved treats all the time, but I tried to teach my redhead mare right from the get go that if she behaves well and does what I ask she gets a treat.

Mine has taken this “good behaviour = treat” and extrapolated it. It started with teaching her to lower her head to have her blanket on and off. She now gets cranky if ALL tack (including boots) doesn’t go on over her head. You can see the wheels turning. “Hmm, that no bow wrap looks a bit like a saddle pad and she’s stupidly standing right in front of me, so, yup, here we go…” “It’s a wrap! For a hind leg. It’s NOT going over your head!” “Thanks! That was delicious! Told ya, it should go over my head.” <insert look of cat who ate the canary/spoilt child who outsmarted parent with logic/lottery winner>

Didn’t think I wanted a mare until I got one. Happiest and most expressive horse ever who tries extremely hard to communicate. If she appears unhappy, she’s sure as sh!t in pain.

[2tempe]

I’ve had 4 mares over the years. Three chestnuts and a gray. Only one of the chestnuts (liver color) was crabby face in the stall; otherwise she was awesome. The two red chestnuts were lovely dispositions. One did anything you wanted. The other was somewhat limited in “work ethic” and had an endless list of health issues. The gray - lovely, talented hunter mare but did not stay sound… I would definitely have another though the 7 yr old I just bought is a gelding and at my age, not sure there will be one after him. But never say never…

[Seagram]

I too have two chestnut mares. Both are delightful creatures. One is a tb, so throw in that bias as well! Lol! But she is honestly one of the sweetest, and sanest horses I’ve known.

[sportyspicepony]

@sascha

Mine has taken this “good behaviour = treat” and extrapolated it. It started with teaching her to lower her head to have her blanket on and off. She now gets cranky if ALL tack (including boots) doesn’t go on over her head. You can see the wheels turning. “Hmm, that no bow wrap looks a bit like a saddle pad and she’s stupidly standing right in front of me, so, yup, here we go…” “It’s a wrap! For a hind leg. It’s NOT going over your head!” “Thanks! That was delicious! Told ya, it should go over my head.” <insert look of cat who ate the canary/spoilt child who outsmarted parent with logic/lottery winner>

LOL, mine definitely has my number for a little wash stall behavior that she has… when I first got her (in November) she had horrible rainrot and skin issues so she had to get a bunch of unpleasant baths, and decided that she absolutely hated the wash stall. Beating her didn’t work, I had to just literally lure her in with treats and then do a consistent reward every time she went in… After a couple months of that I tried to fade the treats out, but all it took was ONE time of no reward and she was like “no thanks I’m absolutely not going into that wash stall because last time you didn’t give me a treat.”

BUT she also used to turn her butt and walk away from anyone who went to get her in the field, and was a demon for wormer and blanketing, and treats did help a lot with those issues! It’s just a matter of figuring out who’s training who

[Can_tFindMyWhip]

OP, is your trainer concerned about your mare?

If I think about the hundreds of horses that I’ve met and handled over the years, most of the horses who exhibited bratty, “mare-ish” behaviors were actually geldings. I’ve been bit and kicked a few times in my life, and always by gelings. The worst thing that a mare has ever done to me is make a face, and I’d prefer that.

[Alpha_Mare]

seriously, what are a few carrots for behavior? From one who is also well trained by her mares…

[horseshorseshorseshorses]

The 2 crabbiest horses on property are geldings. Mine and my boss’. I did go to the track looking for a plain bay mare and came back with a chestnut gelding with chrome. I guess I asked for the mare glare. I don’t really care if he pins his ears and looks pissed as long as all 4 feet stay on the ground and he doesn’t even THINK about nipping at me. He is a quite affectionate guy when he feels like it.

At the place I used to board there was a chestnut mare my boy LOVED. Like would stand, watch her with doe eyes and sigh the big sighs of young love. She hated him and everyone but her owner (she tollerated me because I treated her like the queen she was). She is honestly a lovely horse who made her feeling known loud and proud and took no shit from anyone.

[anon81364900]

Just like the expression " 'Tis a poor workman that blames his tools" , it’s a poor horseperson that blames the gender of their horse for training gaps.

All of the anecdotes that people are offering are just that-- anecdotes. In my horse career (have owned 7 horses, and for a few years managed a 15-horse TR stable, plus countless less-structured horsey interactions), I’ve had lovey-dovey geldings and pissy geldings, and same with mares.

I think more than gender-based differences, there are simply differences in how people-oriented they are. Is the horse an affectionate, relationship-driven horse? Or what I call a “transactional horse” who is more driven by hierarchy-- just tell me what are the damn rules and when is my damn feeding time and I’ll do my job. And if you don’t do those things I’ll tell you what YOUR job is.

That’s not to say the relationship horse is a pushover, or the transactional horse doesn’t love a good back scritch. It’s just, what is most importnt to them? On my farm right now I have one of each, both mares.

The only significant/consistent (in my experience!) gendered difference I’ve seen is that mares rarely engage in complex, mock-fighting play behavior like we see geldings do. Not surprising, of course. But it’s fair to question if one gender exhibits a certain type of mock-fighting play behavior, does this means that gender may approach conflict, hierarchy questions, or training questions differently.

Dunno.

[Scribbler]

I prefer mares.

It’s true they don’t do bitey face and mock fighting. When they nip or kick they are making a specific point. They take social relations very seriously.

[endlessclimb]

My young mare does bitey face and all sorts of other silly play stuff that I typically would associate with geldings. She is a strange one, though…

[sascha]

My current mare did all things including walking around on her hind legs playing Black Stallions with her best friend who was also a mare. All the things. Now that she is older she has given most of that nonsense up.

[Jackie_Cochran]

When I started riding in the mid-1950s to about thirty years ago mares and geldings were thought of as mostly equivalent. Yes, mares could get hormonal, but that was something that any adequate rider was supposed to be able to handle.

Mares and geldings were turned out together at every single stable I boarded at until I got my own land. The horses would form their little herds, some mares would have boyfriends and some geldings would have girlfriends, and other horses hung out with their buddies and friends, of either sex.

These stables were often run by horsemen or horsewomen of vast experience handling literally hundreds of horses in their lives, and except for the odd exception there was no standard separation of gelding and mares.

I think those horses were happier. I think those horses felt like they were living a more natural life, one that fulfilled a lot of their social needs unlike the present day segregation of the sexes (if a gelding is considered a sex.)

I used to ride an elderly Arabian mare who lived in a segregated herd. When she got retired because of frailty she got turned out into the old-folks group, and she immediately got a boy friend.

She is a lot happier. She likes hanging out with her boyfriend. If he is in an outside facing stall she stands by the door, she just wants to be around him (sound familiar?) This mare just likes hanging out with the guys.

And I do not remember a substantial minority of mare owners having to supplement for hormonal problems. I certainly never felt the need when I had mares and geldings turned out together on my land. Yeah, mares could get marish. Well that is well within the capabilities of a decent horseperson.

Each mare did not have a boyfriend. They just liked being able to hang out with a guy if they wanted to. It seemed to make for a happier herd even if the herd was not problem free.

[eightpondfarm]

mannnn… ^THIS!

The only separation i’ll do is ‘easy keepers’ and normal grazers. Though admittedly, it’s the geldings that tend toward pudge. There are four that will have to follow behind the sheep or cows in rotation, as our pastures are enhanced and too rich for them.

Until i joined this group i’d never heard of so many who drug their mares. Quite an eye-opener. I guess when it comes to competition things change. I’m not a competitor (might be/might not be…that depends), so i guess for me, a challenging horse is really nice. That’s the part i love about riding: the conversation. The give and take. A horse with opinions is just gives me more opportunity to talk with them. I don’t enjoy easy horses.

[anon81364900]

@eightpondfarm

Until i joined this group i’d never heard of so many who drug their mares. Quite an eye-opener.

haha, me too. Mare behavior has become medicalized. Just like how benadryl is occasionally given to fussy toddlers when just perhaps it’s more for the benefit of the parent than the kid .

[fordtraktor]

did you never take Advil for your period cramps? I don’t use Regumate or any other drugs on my mare as she doesn’t seem to have this issue, but there are many with painful cycles and I don’t see why one wouldn’t try to make the horse more comfortable. that is way different than drugging to make the horse quiet for quiet’s sake.

I remember taking my childhood pony to a major equine hospital circa 1992 for random explosive behavior. Diagnosis turned out to be “estrus induced behavior problems.” This isn’t really new.

[fordtraktor]

Also, while Regumate was a thing, we ended up breeding the mare and her problems went away after that. it was a common suggestion for mares with painful heat cycles.

[TheDBYC]

There was an episode of Alaska: The Final Frontier where they’re moving their cattle herds to summer pasture, a task which somehow involved crossing a large river or bay. They transport the bull on a barge. Meanwhile, the older man who isn’t the father (I can never remember their names) is working the cattle already there on horseback. Holding the opposite side of the herd is a second horse. It was tacked, so at first glance I thought there was someone riding it. Nope! It’s wild to watch - the horse just knows where the cows are going to try to go & where the cows are supposed to go. So I reckon you’re right that your horses could cut cows without you!

[MsM]

I boarded with a lot of mixed herd turnout also.

One issue not mentioned were the geldings with delusions of stallionhood. When there was more than one, there could be some fighting resulting in injuries requiring a vet. Even if it didn’t escalate to that, a mare or two in the mix sometimes caused a lot of upheaval and scrapes among the boys. Mostly not serious but not all boarders were okay with the cuts, nicks and occasional downtime.

There were also issues with some geldings “breeding” the mares. (I had one that would actually perform the act - yes he was a gelding) Some of the mares were sore from the flailing hooves in the attempts and not all mare owners were okay with the activity and the possibility of internal tears and infections. My horse was banished to a boys-only field! He wasnt the only one, either.

[Manni01]

I am a mare person and I love their personality… yes both of my mares think they are higher ranked then me but I still believe they like to work for me. It teaches me to work on my problem solving tools . And no I do not change their personalities by giving them hormones…