Are Stallion Service Auctions a Good Thing?

[Anna_Goebel]

I have a question, first for stallion owners: Are SSAs overall a good thing?

It seems like a good thing. For the stallion owner you get quite a bit of publicity for your stallion for the donation of a breeding. You also support a group that is important to you - your registry, your local GMO, whatever group you choose to donate to. You usually get a breeding to your stallion and a foal on the ground.

For the group, it’s usually a major fund-raiser, and a promotional opportunity.

But there are now so many Stallion Service Auctions that I wonder about the overall effect. What proportion of breedings are sold now through SSAs, and almost always for lower than the normal stud fee? If it’s a significant proportion, what effect does that have on a the stallion owners overall? Does it make it less financially viable to stand a stallion?

Stallion owners: What is your experience with SSAs? How many do you participate in? Do you feel that your participation leads to an increase in the number of breedings you get outside SSAs, at full price?

Mare owners: What proportion of breedings do you buy from SSAs? How many stallions do you normally bid on? If you don’t win your bid, do you go to that stallion owner and pay the normal stud fee?

[Jumper_Bump]

I am not a stallion owner but I have been watching the auctions for a few years.

I think the main benefits to stud owners is:

1. Exposure for the stallion
2. Most registries appear to offer a discount on the activation of the stallion for the current breeding year if a breeding is donated. So depending on the registry this can be a couple hundred dollars per stallion per registry (stud owners correct me if I am wrong on the price?) so when you own one or multiple stallions and have to “activate” each for multiple registries that can add up quick. On top of that most of the auctions have fine print that say the purchaser pays the collection or booking fee and shipping. It varies stud to stud even within the same auction. So I don’t think the stud owners are missing out on that much by the time they get paid for their time to collect, chill, ship ect… but then save on the activation of their stallion with that registry. Especially because in some cases the breedings don’t even sell.

*Disclaimer that is an outsiders perspective so I don’t actually know the true costs, but that is what I can infer

Benefits to mare owners:
I think its nice to get a chance to save some money on a stud fee. I for one have multiple mares to breed this season and have my eye on a few studs for the next few years that would make nice matches based on size, build temperament, athleticism ect… so I watch the stallion auctions as a way to say okay Stud A was my choice for this year, and Stud B for next year, but Stud B is available at the auction this year, if I can get that breeding for a good price I will do that and breed to Stud A next year instead. I am definitely not going to breed to any stallion because its on the auction for cheap. So I think its a nice way for mare owners to cut a little bit of cost or maybe get a breeding to a stud they like that might normally be out of their price range.

The one thing I have noticed about some of the auctions though is when you read the fine print, some have a buyers premium and some are in different currency so as a purchaser you have to be careful that you don’t end up actually spending more then the breeding is worth by the time you pay Stud Fee + Collection + Shipping + Buyers Premium + Currency Conversion.

So make sure if you are planning on buying at a stallion auction you have read the fine print and don’t assume every contract on the site is the same. Each stallion has their own terms and conditions.

[Unfforgettable]

From a mare owners perspective, they’re a great way to get a stud fee at a reduced price.

However…from a stallion owners viewpoint, you have no control over what mare is used. Somebody can buy the breeding, use it on their poor quality mare, and then proudly and totally barn blind, drag the resulting foal all over the place to show, bragging about the sire (who cannot fix everything).

[cherham]

In every stallion auction I have participated in there is usually a disclaimer from the stallion owner that they reserve the right to refuse any mare they feel unacceptable. I don’t know where that would leave the successful bidder but the caveat is there…so all mare owners should be aware of that before bidding. Perhaps some stallions don’t really care but for the reasons above they certainly should.

[Unfforgettable]

I wish there had been a disclaimer back when I did it. The mare was the picture in the dictionary next to conformation faults. Her owner adored her, which is great…but she took the foal to several shows in her excitement, and of course the first question anyone asks is “who’s the sire?”
Keep in mind the sire had numerous champions to his credit. There was no way I was allowed to refuse the mare. Glad the option exists now.

[RunningwaterWBs]

I used to be a big fan of auctions. When I first started breeding, I always used fresh semen, so auctions were a good way to get a discount. I got some nice deals! Then I “won” a breeding to a stallion whose owner charged an additional fee – a $300 or $400 booking fee in addition to the amount of the bid. I hadn’t read the fine print and ended up paying more than the normal stud fee! I think it was a limited contract as well (one year only). That was in 2004. I do think people complained about this and I’ve noticed some SSAs won’t allow extra fees, but I haven’t used stallions from that farm since.

Now I tend to use frozen semen, which isn’t often offered in SSAs. When I do use fresh stallions, it’s usually from stallions whose owners I know. Because I like to support those owners, I tend to prefer to just pay them the stud fee directly.

[goodmorning]

I have to agree as a MO the auctions have fine print that really don’t make it worth the effort. The SOs that skip the nickel & diming tend to be the more experienced owners with proven stallions and the auction tends to get quite close to going list rate (for those that I’ve been interested in, YMMV). Better off with a special incentive discount of sorts or frozen semen breeding.

Exposure may be a benefit for SOs.

[twinlights]

The NEDA (New England Dressage Association) SSO I think is a bit different.
It is based on getting the young horses produced from the auction into the show ring. It is run to fund the programs that support the New England Breeders.
Stallion owners get advertising, offspring out competing, and if the offspring do well in the futurity at the end of the season, they get a check as a bonus.
Mare owners can get really great deals, all fees and restrictions are indicated on the individual stallions page so it is up to them to read all. They get a great venue to show off their offspring, and the futurity at the end of the season!
For NEDA, it supports our scholarships for breeders, the sweepstakes program and of course the stallion futurity at the end of the season.
I think it is a win/win for all involved!

[mareslave]

For BWP foals and yearlings, the stallion owner wins money if they’ve donated a breeding to the SSA and any of that stallion’s progeny win the futurity the next year. (might be for 2 year old futurity winners as well but I can’t look it up right now)

[Hilltop_Farm_Inc]

Overall, I think Stallion Service Auctions are a good thing for both mare and stallion owners. AND, they are usually one of the largest fundraising events for the organizations holding them. Yes, there are a lot running now and its difficult to choose which to support as you sadly can’t support all.

I don’t know any breed organizations that discount activation fees for participating stallions (one does pay stallion owners a fee to cover thr first collection expense that must be included and another does a random training for 1-2 lucky winners to receive a bit of cash back).

Stallions do get a lot of exposure though to a broad base of potential breeders from a well run auction. So while you are giving up the revenue of a breeding, it may be sold to someone who wasn’t aware of your stallion previously. That’s a huge bonus. Plus, it helps support the registries/organizations that in turn support the breeidng community. If money from SSA proceeds provides better awards, more marketing, more inspections, etc that is wonderful.

Mare owners can use the auctions to get a discount and that’s also good as we all know breeding is an expensive endeavour and anywhere we can save is good! But I’ve also known breeders who will pay the same (or in a few rare cases more) than they would pay the stallion owner because they too want to help support the registry/organization and see the benefits that come from these SSA proceeds.

Some of the SSA’s (like the NEDA one mentioned above) have some futurity programs attached to them which is a great idea.

Of course, I could (but won’t ) share a number of SSA nightmare stories too. Stallion owners aren’t kidding when they say these are often their most difficult/complicated breedings and we’ve seen similiar frustrated stories from some of the mare owner postings above. Stallion owners need to be clear on any restrictions and expenses up front. Mare owners need to read the fine print and/or contact the stallion owner ahead of bidding to clarify terms.

And for all involved (registries/organizations, stallion owners, mare owners, etc) keep spreading the word about the auctions. Share through social media, tell other breeders, etc. The more participation we get just brings further awareness to the breeding community as a whole.

Happy Bidding!

[Hilltop_Farm_Inc]

Yes, they are good but can get even better!

Overall, I think Stallion Service Auctions are a good thing for both mare and stallion owners. AND, they are usually one of the largest fundraising events for the organizations holding them. Yes, there are a lot running now and its difficult to choose which to support as you sadly can’t support all.

I don’t know any breed organizations that discount activation fees for participating stallions (one does pay stallion owners a fee to cover thr first collection expense that must be included and another does a random training for 1-2 lucky winners to receive a bit of cash back).

Stallions do get a lot of exposure though to a broad base of potential breeders from a well run auction. So while you are giving up the revenue of a breeding, it may be sold to someone who wasn’t aware of your stallion previously. That’s a huge bonus. Plus, it helps support the registries/organizations that in turn support the breeidng community. If money from SSA proceeds provides better awards, more marketing, more inspections, etc that is wonderful.

Mare owners can use the auctions to get a discount and that’s also good as we all know breeding is an expensive endeavour and anywhere we can save is good! But I’ve also known breeders who will pay the same (or in a few rare cases more) than they would pay the stallion owner because they too want to help support the registry/organization and see the benefits that come from these SSA proceeds.

Some of the SSA’s (like the NEDA one mentioned above) have some futurity programs attached to them which is a great idea.

Of course, I could (but won’t ) share a number of SSA nightmare stories too. Stallion owners aren’t kidding when they say these are often their most difficult/complicated breedings and we’ve seen similiar frustrated stories from some of the mare owner postings above. Stallion owners need to be clear on any restrictions and expenses up front. Mare owners need to read the fine print and/or contact the stallion owner ahead of bidding to clarify terms.

And for all involved (registries/organizations, stallion owners, mare owners, etc) keep spreading the word about the auctions. Share through social media, tell other breeders, etc. The more participation we get just brings further awareness to the breeding community as a whole.

Happy Bidding!

[Daventry]

Agree with everything that is being said…from the Mare Owner side and the Stallion Owner side.

One thing that has not been mentioned, also related to having no control over who buys the stud service…and maybe it has just been bad luck on our part over the years, is being stuck with mares who have had past fertility problems. In our past experiences with stallion service auctions, the winning bid has often been the Mare Owner who has tried to get their mare pregnant over multiple years with no success and the discounted stallion auction rate is their last ditch effort to try it one last time. We do make each Mare Owner fill out a fertility history information sheet on their mare, but not everyone is honest about it.

As a Mare Owner myself, we have made sure not to add on any “hidden fees” to our stallions in any auction. Often, we include the first collection for free, or just charge a minimal fee for collection and don’t increase it to some astronomical amount. As a result, this means that we are sacrificing our own time and money in order to help YOUR mare get regnant. For me personally, just the drive to the airport alone is two and a half hours round trip.

Don’t get me wrong. We have met some lovely Mare Owners over the years through the online auctions, some of which have become wonderful, repeat customers and friends. Unfortunately, the less than honest ones have made it a struggle to want to continue with the auctions. As a result, we no longer offer our boys in online auctions due to a few past bad experiences with Mare Owners who were not upfront in regards to their mare’s fertility.

[MysticOakRanch]

Agree with “good and bad”. As a mare owner, I had the worst experience and the best. With one stud fee, there were NO advertised extra fees - I bought the stud fee for a fair but not stupendous discount. Then after buying it, got hit with a $500 (YES $500!) booking fee and $375 collection fee (PLUS SHIPPING). I expect to pay around $200 to $250 for collection, but this was ridiculous. And after a few shipments, realized the semen was HORRIBLE and my mare was not going to get pregnant. AND then the mare got hurt, and the SO wanted $500 to switch to another mare. I walked away from it at that point. So that was my worst experience - a Hanoverian stallion whose name will go unmentioned. He is no longer standing.

Then my great experience - I ended up re-breeding to that stallion again, and to another stallion owned by that stallion owner. The auction introduced me to an SO with great customer service. Again, not a huge discount on the stud fee, but enough to encourage me to try a stallion, and eventually, build a relationship with an SO. So for she and I, it was a positive experience.

I think they are a good thing because of that, but can see how many ways they can go wrong too. I don’t think ANY other fees except collection fees should be allowed, and then those should be disclosed up front. I do think they are a great way to support an organization.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

As a stallion owner and a mare owner, I think it can be a very good thing. I actually purchased my breeding to produce Nevada through a stallion service auction. I kept the stallion owner updated with photos, show results, etc, and always used his sire’s name (Galant) and HIS sire’s name (Aram), + my mare’s sire (Obelisk) in marketing Nevada. I have also received photos of offspring that I donated Nevada’s stud fee to the service auction. I have definitely tried to “pass it down the line” for my offspring’s success.

[eswarmbloods]

As an SO, I can completely agree we’ve gotten hit with some mares that had horrible fertility problems. But at the same time, they really are great publicity.

I’ve been toying with doing one, two, or three SSA’s this year, and after reading this I think will do all three.

As a side note, the KWPN offers 50% off the next year’s stallion activation fee for donating a breeding.

[Daventry]

“As a side note, the KWPN offers 50% off the next year’s stallion activation fee for donating a breeding.”

That is an excellent incentive to encourage Stallion Owners to donate their boys to an auction. I wish the other registries would do this.