For sure! 
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Found this on another older (2013) thread and I this to relate to what I am trying to untangle:
"Today, far too many people incapable even of sitting still, in control of their horse at an ordinary walk, trot, and canter even in an enclosed arena think they’re ready to begin what even great teachers of the past acknowledged as a discipline requiring exceptional, advanced skills! We have scores of people out there just plain ruining horses exactly as in Littauer’s day through what he described as “unconscious, unintentional abuse,” a term which he admitted many found controversial even in those days! A little reductionist perhaps, but you tell me if it doesn’t apply to the average AA “perpetual beginner” banging around in the saddle on a big-moving WB, while hanging on desperately by the reins!
[…]
My solution:
Just like the Eventers: You want to “move up,” you have to prove yourself with a given score at the lowest levels first. Let’s say (arbitrarily) 5 scores of 68 or better at Intro to be allowed to go Training, 5 scores of 68+ to go First, etc.,—with teaching emphasis on basics, basics, basics ridden WITHOUT trying to “put the horse on the bit” (razor in the hands of a monkey!) until the rider has DEMONSTRATED s/he has the confirmed seat and hands to be able to begin to do so. In short, teach ordinary “equitation” up through First Level, and only then do you begin calling any of this “dressage;” when the capability for true Collection truly enters the picture.
Back to the future, baby! "
For me, Intro (or pre-intro) should be about the riders (you can do young horse classes with you have a green bean) and we shouldn’t ask things that riders aren’t ready to perform - or might end up performing at their rider’s expense… That is not “dressage” (though it is in the original etymology), I get it, but it should be about laying the foundation so that the beginner riders can eventually move up (at either Training or First Level) to do dressage “stuff” when they get to the actual intermediate level.
I guess I wish they was “more of an institutionalized system” here to help beginner/intermediate students learn.
Ok, rambling over - thanks for helping me “write my thoughts out”!
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What kind of judges are you hiring that are writing content on tests or saying things that is not fit for children? Like what?
I’m baffled.
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Yeah, seems crazy to me that they wouldn’t get it. I came up through Pony Club and you bet that our little in-barn competitions weren’t judged according to the same standards as rated shows. I have no judging credentials (beyond auditing the L program), and I’m an amateur, but I’d happily spend a few hours being an encouraging judge for some kiddos for free.
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We don’t have a lot of options (probably because we’re in a mostly “DIY” Western Pleasure/Barrel racing area and few people gravitate towards classical riding (other than slapping an English saddle on their pleasure horse at the open show).
That one particular judge used 4-letter words in front of kids and called a couple pre-teens “dumb cluckers” for using “voice” when trying to get 20+ yo small ponies to stay in a consistent rhythm… (ironically she came highly recommended as a “Pony-Club friendly” dressage schooling show judge by our regional Dressage/Eventing association).
But they don’t expect a frame! I was asked to judge a pony club rally a few years ago (I am not a judge in real life) It was such a blast and yes, they were counter bent a lot but these kids could ride and had a great time. I never mentioned contact because to a kid they had contact but not a frame.
I think you are hung up on the verbiage and need to find a judge who will give the kids some positive reinforcement!
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Yep, I think that is the issue.
I am personally not hung up on the verbiage - I have a clear idea of what my lesson kiddos can/should do and on how to get them there. But I am mightily struggling to find local judges (other than the one lovely unicorn neighbor) who are not hung up on the verbiage and don’t give super helpful comments that a 9 yo can understand and use to improve.
What I have been struggling with is the dissonance between what we do (attempt to educate young riders in safe/non-abusive basic methods on (think Lucinda Green "ready for trouble ) and off their pony) and finding local judges who are interested/able in judging this.
Because we do need to keep them (and their parents) interested. And non-horsey parents want to know how their kid is progressing - and in other sports they see that on the field/pitch (and games and meets). In an ideal world, they wouldn’t do ‘anything in public’ until they are able to do 2nd level at rated show or go around a Novice course. But…
Might be location and lack of options, might be that judges (most who come recommended have done the L-program) think that Intro is actually “dressage” (I was taught that anything under 2nd/3rd level is “educational flatwork”) and should be judged accordingly, might be other reasons…
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Or just have someone who rides dressage and has scribed sit in a judge’s booth? Especially if the judges are cussing out little kids? Which is bananas by the way if it happened.
I feel like the OP is trying to reinvent the wheel here. Intro IS about laying a foundation for Training, Training for 1st, etc. It’s why we have 3 tests in Intro, the first one being mostly walk and the last one having canter.
If I stayed at home until I was able to hit mid 60s in 2nd I’d probably still be at home waiting for someone to tell me I was ready.
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Like “F*** me blind, but you’ve got a d*** good seat on that little SOB–sweet baby Jesus, you rode the f*** out of that f***ing test!”?
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Haha, not quite that much - but pretty close. I mean, the “sentiment” was nice - mostly. But some parents were not impressed… ahem
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This is not entirely true anymore. Now that Pony Club offers more disciplines than just Eventing, members can get certifications in Dressage, Western, or Western Dressage as early as D-2. Some of the riders in my Pony Club never jump at all. The D-2 Dressage certification test just asks for the rider to have a basic ability to canter and be able to get through Intro C (not necessarily well, just be able to ride the pattern and discuss their ride).
Personally, I get a queasy feeling when I see people pushing for their kids to start jumping when they can’t even really rate their speed or steer with seat and legs. Will many school horses happily pack a kid around a cross-rails course with a minimum of steering? Sure, but I’d feel more comfortable knowing the kid could effectively use their aids before sending them out there.
So, in short I think I agree with both sides. USDF Intro classes are not really suitable for beginner riders, but I also think we need to provide something for young riders interested in dressage to work toward on a par with what the H/J world offers.
@anon49845990 I’m not sure where you are located, but IEA offers Dressage in some areas and that may be worth looking into for your kids. None of the IEA barns local to me participate (I am solidly in H/J land), so I can’t speak from experience, but I would imagine it operates similar to the hunt seat IEA competitions.
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This is what I was thinking.
I personally never considered an Intro test to be for beginner riders. It is literally Introductory. As described by USDF, to introduce the ride and/or horse to dressage. It is not called nor described as a beginner test, to introduce a person to riding.
Other sports, though not without safety concerns of their own, don’t involve 800+ pound animals that have minds of their own. So, I don’t really think it’s unreasonable to expect a higher degree of skill and familiarity with riding before taking a beginner out in public as compared to when huddle-ball (soccer as played by five-year-olds) kids have their first game.
Why would the USDF write a more elementary test for schooling shows?
You’re more than free to create your own tests for use in your own schooling shows.
Or reach out to the director of a local schooling show you want to frequent and ask if they’d consider adding a more beginner level, either by writing a test or putting in a rail class. I don’t really understand why you think it should be something the USDF does?
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OP, I don’t think you would want to get much more introductory than Intro A! You can’t make it painful to judge. There is always leadline…or we have been known on some rare occasions to actually have an instructor in the ring to assist a truly tiny tot in Intro A, and then tell the judge to use their discretion on how to score that when the kid needed a little assist to pick up the trot. But you don’t want a walk test that takes 15 minutes per rider…you and the judge will die!
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No.
Schooling shows are swimming in newish riders on horses that are just riding a pattern. Some are more serious others signed up because everyone else in the barn was going and mom and dad love that the ride times are scheduled lol.
L grads are usually the judges we see here at schooling shows and they are typically kind and gracious to.the green beans. What pisses them off are coaching from the rail and doing more than just calling the test.
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Yes, this is what I was going to suggest. Your own tests with suitable directives. Let the judges know in advance what you’re trying to accomplish. I would enlist local pros as judges. It’s hard for most “real” dressage judges, even L grads, to evaluate a ride without having USEF/DF standards in mind.
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Ok, so I’m no L Graduate, but I’ve been strong-armed into judging very low-level eventing dressage in the past.
That was a cold, wet, long day!
I was warned in advance that I wasn’t going to be very impressed but that the point of the exercise was to be encouraging without being ridiculous, and I frantically called a few people and got some pointers about how to do it.
However, not rocket science. Be nice, find something worth praising, point out obvious problems nicely, and don’t overscore the first few riders or you’ll find yourself forced to give a 10 later in the day for something where the only redeeming feature is that it doesn’t make you cringe.
The point being, an L graduate is way over-qualified for what you need. It’s not really fair to ask them to put aside their hard-earned training, whereas some mid-level smurf grandma like me is more likely to make it a positive experience.
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Exactly. Locally we have a show in April that’s the first show here since October. It has dressage and CTs. It’s also a HUGE pony club show. Nobody’s horse has been ridden outside all winter, the ponies are fresh, the new OTTBs are out of control, the weather is questionable, you’re gonna run over at least one pony in warm-up, someone is going to get bucked off or jump out of a dressage arena.
The judges are all WELL AWARE and nobody cusses out any children. I’m not sure what part of the country the OP is in where Intro A isn’t acceptable and the judges act in such a manner.
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Write your own test and get a friend or relative to “judge”. Neither the parents nor the riders will know the difference.
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Because if “we” are not offering anything for the elementary level kids, we are - in this area of the country at least - going to lose them to other disciplines that cater more towards them (around here it’s going to be color “breed” shows) and we are losing the future of the sport. You may see a lot of beginners at your local schooling shows - but how many young riders do you see in those? And how many young riders do you see continuing past Intro C?
Around here, schooling shows are mostly populated with older adult ammies (fair enough they are the ones that can pay for training/board, etc) and while you maybe will see kids at Intro A, I’ve yet to see a local schooling show “swimming” in kids at Training level - let alone at 1st level. Where do all the kids go?
(I do not identify as a dressage rider by any means - foxhunting/endurance has always been more my vibe - but I firmly believe any kid graduating from a reputable program should be able to ride 2nd level and jump 3 foot. And then when they know that, they can specialize in whatever their heart desire - chasing cows or eventing or becoming a dressage diva. Currently, in our area at least, we don’t keep them in Olympic disciplines long enough for them to get there. We lose them to the sparkles and the academy classes of other disciplines…)
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I still fail to see how that’s something for the USDF to try to fix. If you want a dressage-focused beginner test at your schooling shows, make it yourself. That’s the beauty of schooling shows. The people running them can make any class or test they want; they are not locked into what a governing body says.
Aren’t people always complaining about how showing has become largely not affordable, especially showing rated? Owning horses and riding in general is swiftly becoming unaffordable. And you touched on what is the reason - finances. When I started riding, my parents could pay for a lesson a week and come out to under $150/month. Now, it’s $75+ per lesson in most places I’ve seen, so $300/month for just one lesson per week. And that’s if you can even find a lesson barn with school horses. Otherwise, parents get pushed to lease or buy way sooner than a beginner should, because otherwise there isn’t anything for them to ride. On top of insane housing prices, increased costs of living, stagnant wages. The age group that are parents of those “young kids” you want to see more of at shows, simply can’t afford for their kids to ride anymore. So, yeah it makes sense that the “beginners” are now more often adults getting into horses when they can afford it. I don’t think that has anything to do with the Intro A test criteria.
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