Are the USDF Intro tests goals "realistic"?

[SillyHorse]

@anon49845990

Because if “we” are not offering anything for the elementary level kids, we are - in this area of the country at least - going to lose them to other disciplines that cater more towards them (around here it’s going to be color “breed” shows) and we are losing the future of the sport.

They go to more exciting and fun disciplines. Dressage is not attractive to most kids, the way jumping and even western contesting disciplines are.

@anon49845990

I’ve yet to see a local schooling show “swimming” in kids at Training level - let alone at 1st level.

And you probably never will, for the reason I noted above. Dressage will never attract kids the way other, more fun, more exciting disciplines do. That is not USDF’s or USEF’s fault. It’s no one’s fault, it just is a fact of life.

@anon49845990

Where do all the kids go?

Hunters, jumpers, barrels, contesting, you know, the fun stuff. Dressage is too cerebral for most kids. Hell, it’s too cerebral for most younger adults.

[furlong47]

OP, if the goal here is to give the kids an in-barn show at their level and in English tack, then as others have said, just create something. An obstacle course/trail course or mounted games may be more fun for the kids, you can design the activity to use/practice the skills they are actually working on, and it can be judged more objectively. If you’re planning to do it in the next month or so, make it Halloween themed and after the other classes let the kids dress their horses up at the end. Where I ride we do this every year and it’s loads of fun, plus the ideas the kids come up with are usually super cute.

[anon49845990]

@mmeqcenter

I still fail to see how that’s something for the USDF to try to fix. If you want a dressage-focused beginner test at your schooling shows, make it yourself.

I can - and do - do my own thing at the schooling shows I organize (it’s tough to find judges due to location but we make it work). However, I do believe that the job of a federation is to encourage more people to ride in its discipline and to create pipelines for more riders to potentially move up the level. (“Dedicated to education, the recognition of achievement and promotion of dressage”).

Children/pony/junior classes are typically quite full in Europe for Olympic disciplines (at both rated and schooling shows). Granted, riding is likely a bit more affordable there than what you are describing due to government funding.
Other countries do it - why not here?

[crthunder]

I used to help run in house shows at my old barn that had a lesson program (I myself started that way!). We would run dressage tests for half the day and fun games and rail classes after lunch. Then all lesson kids (we had all disciplines except jumping) could participate. What our main dressage instructor did was ask another local dressage trainer to come judge and adjusted the test collectives to be more about rider and more specific. Then the kids got ribbons based on their score versus a place among the others. The fun classes were some of the usual egg and spoon and also short patterns for students not ready for an entire test. Parents, kids and adult students loved it. Trainers had their clients use it to help show nerves and try new patterns. Attire was clean and casual. No show clothes required. What I loved was the older students helped the new ones and would braid the lesson horses manes for practice. Most of the ribbons we gave out were donated by clients with boxes of ribbons they didn’t want. Lesson kids didn’t care what the writing was but were proud of a ribbon.

Then for students ready for leaving the property we took to schooling shows (we bc my friend that was the instructor needed a second adult who could call a test so enter the high school teacher with a teacher voice!). Still low key compared to the big shows but gentler judging and much cheaper!

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@anon49845990

but they can’t - and in my opinion probably shouldn’t at this point in their education - be trying to put their pony on the bit without independent aids or good hands.

Consistently on the bit is required at second level, not intro. Keeping a light contact while steering the horse around the test pattern is not an unreasonable goal for riders a year or so into learning dressage in weekly lessons. Six months for an intermediate rider from another discipline moving to dressage. If it isn’t perfect they just won’t get a 10. Most of us don’t get 10s often. Do your students ride with no contact at all until their seat is really solid? If so they have not yet started to learn dressage.

[anon49845990]

@Long_Time_Lurker

Do your students ride with no contact at all until their seat is really solid? If so they have not yet started to learn dressage.

Yep, no contact until they have shown they’re not going to be using the reins for balance and they can ride w/t/c without stirrups/bareback safely and smoothly.

I am not claiming they are doing pirouettes out there but in the same way that the kids doing ground pole “courses” at H/J shows - even rated ones - are not ‘jumping’ in my book, they are still included in H/J shows - as a first step.
My point is I think by making “intro” about green horses and/or new to dressage but not new to riding, we are not giving an easy-entry point for kids who would benefit hugely from being in this “house”. H/J shows have tons of kiddos doing flat and groundpole classes (and those entries can cost a lot of money).

I firmly think that “educational flatwork” is the basis of everything we do when riding horses. People should not jump until they can ride a balanced trot/canter. So out of the 3 Olympic disciplines, “dressage” should be the entryway for the kids who eventually want to do pure jumping or eventing.
We obviously can do our own thing at our own schooling shows, but making “Dressage” sound that inaccessible is I think it’s a missed opportunity to include more young riders into the “family”…

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@anon49845990

Yep, no contact until they have shown they’re not going to be using the reins for balance and they can ride w/t/c without stirrups/bareback safely and smoothly.

So are they kept on the lunge line then? Or just ride with drooping reins and the ponies follow each other around the arena track? There are lots of riding schools (including the Spanish Riding School) where riders are kept on the lunge and not responsible for steering their own horse when they are beginners. But if this is your approach how do you expect them to then ride even a simple pattern in a show if they are not yet using reins in lessons?
If they ARE actually using their reins as well as seat and legs to direct their pony they must have some contact, and it is a good goal to keep it soft and consistent. And a bad habit to pick up the rein to turn then drop it into a loop again. In my opinion at least.

I do agree with you that the first few levels are “educational flatwork”, but to most instructors that includes soft following contact. I think that naming our first gateway levels intro and training levels implies (intentionally) that they are really “pre-dressage”.

[atr]

The “kids in Europe” haven’t generally had the choice of going Western or hunters or saddleseat.

I grew up in England. Our ridden show choices at most local venues were showjumping, or gymkhana games of many varieties, which were often not for the faint of heart but surely helped develop a solid seat! All done in an English saddle of course. (And of course there’s the whole show pony/ horse thing which is another different world.)

Dressage didn’t really feature in the landscape at all, especially not for children.

[Texarkana]

A couple thoughts, sorry if they have already been addressed upthread. My reading comprehension is bunk at the moment.

1. My old trainer used to bring “littles” to dressage schooling shows all the time to do a walk only test. I’m not sure what test that was? But it sounds like it was exactly what you are wanting.

2. Over the summer, I decided to go through all the Ride IQ test ride-throughs and see where I got “stuck.” Lauren Sprieser made a tongue-in-cheek comment in the intro A ride through that she was sorry for anyone riding that test because it is hard with all the walking. When top level riders are calling the lowest of tests difficult, even jokingly, maybe we do need some more entry-level options.

With that said, when I got back into showing after a many year hiatus, I started with the intro tests and did not feel like too much was expected of anyone or that anyone was judged unfairly.

[Bogey2]

I am going to take a different tact here and suggest YOU listen to some Mel Robbins podcasts! You are being way too rigid about this whole thing.

I am in my 60’s and have seen a lot of change in the horse industry as well as dressage. GMO’s started adding things like equitation, Prix Caprilli, Western Dressage etc to keep the shows going…then during COVID had and continue to have online shows where you send a video in to be judged. We have a very short season for shows here and two venues dropped some shows because no one volunteers anymore.

So my point is that you need to be part of the solution not the problem!

[enjoytheride]

But kids in Europe don’t have the discipline choice that kids in the US do. Western Pleasure, Ranch Riding, Contesting, Roping, Saddle Seat, and Hunters don’t really exist in Europe (at least not as broadly as they do here).

[anon49845990]

We do a fair bit on the longe line but the ponies are trained (‘stabilized’ to use the Forward System language) to be ridden by elementary riders on a loose rein/semi-loose rein.
And the kids turn primarily using their seat and legs & use their core to balance, not their hands.

[anon49845990]

Yes, Europe doesn’t have the same amount of Western disciplines (though the Italians seem to be particularly keen with reining, etc). But there are mounted games, endurance, TREC, horseball, polo, equifeel. It also is a very broad house. The difference I would argue is that disciplines are less “siloed” than here. My impression here is that if you do the POA circuit, this is all you do - you don’t take your pony barrel racing or in Hunter classes whereas most amateurs in Europe will dabble in quite a few disciplines - and come to them after having gotten a foundation in all three Olympic disciplines - which includes a fair amount of “educational flatwork”.

[SillyHorse]

@Long_Time_Lurker

If it isn’t perfect they just won’t get a 10.

Just for clarification, 10 means excellent, not perfect.

[mmeqcenter]

@Texarkana

Over the summer, I decided to go through all the Ride IQ test ride-throughs and see where I got “stuck.” Lauren Sprieser made a tongue-in-cheek comment in the intro A ride through that she was sorry for anyone riding that test because it is hard with all the walking. When top level riders are calling the lowest of tests difficult, even jokingly, maybe we do need some more entry-level options.

I seriously doubt she meant “hard” as in difficult. I would assume she meant hard as in boring. A lot of people have a hard time being stuck at the walk for extended periods of time, because it’s not enough brain stimulation, particularly if it’s an experienced rider on a green horse, instead of a beginner rider.

[mmeqcenter]

@anon49845990

We obviously can do our own thing at our own schooling shows, but making “Dressage” sound that inaccessible is I think it’s a missed opportunity to include more young riders into the “family”…

I guess this is the train of thought that created crossrails classes at h/j shows, and now people complain that it’s dumbed down too much, they miss the days when 3’ was the lowest you could show at.

We obviously will have to agree to disagree. I don’t see any need to push beginner riders into the show ring at a rated show. I think it’s a perfectly reasonable expectation to have a certain level of competence and riding ability before going out to rated shows.

[SillyHorse]

@mmeqcenter

I think it’s a perfectly reasonable expectation to have a certain level of competence and riding ability before going out to rated shows.

Or schooling shows. I show at schooling shows from time to time and don’t want to have to worry about riders in the warmup who can’t ride well enough to compete even at Intro level.

Dumbing down dressage shows isn’t the answer. Teaching kids to ride is.

[mmeqcenter]

I think it depends on the schooling show. For the dressage schooling shows that are modeled after a USDF show, particularly the ones that go for the USDF Schooling Show awards, I completely agree.
But some are really catered to these beginning riders, and that’s great. I don’t think it’s totally crazy for the kiddos and their parents to want to get some kind of experience like a schooling show. These types of schooling shows are usually run by the lesson barn itself, and just the lesson students attend, not people from other barns. The h/j barn I rode at as a kid put on usually 2-4 a year, they were awesome. So maybe I’ll rename those to “Barn shows.”
“Barn shows” = beginner friendly
“Schooling shows” = probably not
“Rated shows” = definitely not

[Arlomine]

I have taught lots of kids, and I’ve taken them to various levels of shows. they have shown in the intro tests, they have also shown an opportunity classes at the recognise shows.

I don’t think there is really a problem with the way the directives are set for the intro classes … remember you are going to be showing with kids of the same type of skill set, or very young horses or horses new to the sport. The playing field is pretty level, and if somebody gets a super great score because they can actually bend their horse, and their hands are not bouncing, and they have good geometry and hit their points: they deserve the huge score, which can be inspirational to the other kids if handled correctly as a learning tool.

The directives are there to explain what the goals are, no one is expecting the intro riders to do all that stuff…but they should read it! They should know what the goal is, even if they can only get partially there. If you’re trying to toss a basketball in a hoop, and you must buy a mile, that’s different than missing bye a few inches, but you have to know that there is a hoop!

My apologies for the multiple grammatical and spelling mistakes…this was a voice text that was not edited

[Texarkana]

@mmeqcenter

@Texarkana

Over the summer, I decided to go through all the Ride IQ test ride-throughs and see where I got “stuck.” Lauren Sprieser made a tongue-in-cheek comment in the intro A ride through that she was sorry for anyone riding that test because it is hard with all the walking. When top level riders are calling the lowest of tests difficult, even jokingly, maybe we do need some more entry-level options.

I seriously doubt she meant “hard” as in difficult. I would assume she meant hard as in boring. A lot of people have a hard time being stuck at the walk for extended periods of time, because it’s not enough brain stimulation, particularly if it’s an experienced rider on a green horse, instead of a beginner rider.

Have you listened to it? She explains exactly what she means.

Walk is always the easiest gait to lose points on. That was her joke- all that walking is hard in the sense that there’s a lot of potential to screw it up.

She was saying it tongue in cheek; she doesn’t truly think intro A is “hard.” But her joke jives with the OP’s point that the tests are not written with beginner friendly verbiage.