Are the USDF Intro tests goals "realistic"?

[fivestrideline]

I think, OP, that the level your kids are at and the way you have chosen to train them doesn’t line up (yet) with USDF dressage. When the very lowest level - Intro A - explicitly says it is geared towards new players in the sport but NOT new riders, there you go. Beginners can do dressage, but USDF Dressage Tests are not for dead beginners learning how to steer and balance.

Also, I can tell you that most of the crossrail/“walk trot + canter one at a time” kids I’ve worked with could absolutely execute an acceptable Intro A and B test, and C with some practice. Especially with a reader. They know how to steer and keep their hands steady in a light contact unless something unexpected happens (like a trip or big spook). The biggest issue would be geometry and bend at the canter. TBH the older ground poles kids could do most of this too, though scores and judge comments would likely go over their heads (I mean, they’re in kindergarten…).

If your riders can’t perform at the level of a ground pole or once-around/twice-around crossrail hunter kid, then I don’t see why USDF is responsible for writing a test for them since they probably shouldn’t be showing. That’s why you write your own test and find a nearby trainer to judge to your criteria.

Lastly, some good natured competition between barn riders shouldn’t break them. It teaches them sportsmanship, assuming the playing field is somewhat fair.

[Texarkana]

@Mander

So you got a 50%. Next time you might get a 60, or you might get a 45. IMO, as long as you’re safe, it’s OK if you don’t get the score you hoped for. It’s OK if they’re competing against experienced riders who are scoring higher than them. It’s OK to tell your students, “Hey, you’re still learning. You came out and gave it your best shot, and it’s OK to be disappointed. And now we can see what the judge said, and we can learn from it, and work on doing better next time.”

That’s one of the things I really like about showing dressage with scored tests vs. showing in something completely subjective, like hunters.

You get a score that is truly reflective of your ability (with some bias, but nowhere near as much as some other disciplines). You aren’t just getting a ribbon dependent on who shows up. You’re getting real feedback about your progress.

So your beginner rider scores a 50. Isn’t that more helpful in the long run than your beginner rider being grand champion of short stirrup w/t at a backyard schooling show with only 2 other entries in the class?

[quietann]

I’m honestly starting to think that our OP is worried about how her beginner kids will look to other people since they won’t be achieving the stated goals of the Intro tests.

Hint: almost no one else will be achieving them either. As others have pointed out, in a show environment, even someone who has been achieving the goals at home probably won’t be. If OP wants to hold themselves and their riders to a “higher standard” that’s their business, but it sounds very not-fun, and kids being kids, fun is important to them.

[JenEM]

Intro tests are offered at recognized shows around here, but are often Opportunity, and are usually quite low entries. I did a couple with my horse when she was 4, just to get her to a “real” show atmosphere and experience.

Looking at the directives again on Intro A, it just says “accepting contact with the bit.” No one is expecting the Intro ponies to go around in a 1st level frame. When I did Intro tests, I was basically riding in a hunter type frame/contact/carriage (pick your term of choice) and was scoring very well. I agree with fivestrideline that most hunter walk/trot/crossrail kids could easily ride an Intro test–one of the barns I used to ride at would have a couple lessons every year where they did just that as a test of their flatwork. You need steady, consistent contact for any discipline you’d be taking kids to a show for–even the MiniStirrup guidelines for the local hunter show organization judge on hands and seat, which is just another way of saying rider balance and contact.

[FjordBCRF]

@anon49845990

Well from a pedagogical perspective, setting kids out for doing a poor job is not the best in my opinion.

I’ve been reading along on this one and need to ask, where is the push to put kids in the show ring so early? If they are going to do a poor job, they aren’t ready or they (and their parents) need to have their expectations reset. Dressage is about competing against yourself, or at least that’s how I look at it.

If you have a youngster that wants to show but can’t handle getting a certain score or a certain placing, that’s not the organizations fault.

A good friend of mine has a youth program that is dressage focused. They go to schooling shows and the kids do the leadline or do one of the intro tests. Sometimes things go well, and sometimes things don’t and that’s when the life lessons come in.

[enjoytheride]

I mean, half the time the pony in Intro A walks over the rails and out of the ring during the circle. It’s not a big deal. Nobody’s expecting Intro A to be Valegro.

[FjordBCRF]

We’ve had a jumper and a stepper outter of the dressage ring with kids in Intro. Literally, the pony stopped, stepped one leg over the board and then back in. Just because she could

[anon49845990]

Ok, I will try one last time since many seem confused:
I come from a background where “educational flatwork” serves as the foundation for all other riding disciplines (in my case, it ended up being endurance and fox-hunting, other childhood lesson friends went into the jumpers or reining). In my experience, this emphasis on fundamentals is essential, but I believe we need to make it more accessible.

Currently, the Intro guidelines listed in the purpose section and collective gaits can seem a bit daunting for newcomers.
I had assumed that my approach—starting kids without reins until they have truly stable hands and a secure seat—was fairly standard. However, it seems there might be a disconnect between this teaching philosophy and the official USDF guidelines and that as a result young riders like my lesson kiddos are not the “primary audience” for such tests. (I get that!)

However, I think we should also consider introducing an easier entry point for young riders and beginners (if we think Dressage is such an important foundation to everything else - or do we not think that?), allowing them to engage with dressage concepts without feeling overwhelmed. This could foster a more inclusive environment and encourage more riders to explore the discipline.

Since the current Intro tests are not meant for beginners (apparently?), someone who gives it a try will score low (and so they should). As an adult, I understand that I might score in the 50s when taking my green bean to a schooling show and be very happy that we went around and stayed in the ring!
But I think it is a bit different with very young students. No matter how many times you tell children that assessment is important and an opportunity for growth, scoring very low (and receiving technical feedback beyond their ability and age-level comprehension) can be discouraging and counterproductive from a pedagogical standpoint. When young riders receive low scores, it often leads to frustration and diminished confidence, which can deter them from wanting to continue in the sport. We should perhaps consider how we can use the tests as learning opportunities that motivate and inspire growth.
I agree it is crucial to create an environment where mistakes are seen as part of the learning process. By providing constructive - understandable - feedback and focusing on the positives, we can help our young riders develop their skills without feeling defeated by their scores.

I do agree that children should not be pushed too early into the show ring and that focus should be on building a strong foundation, enjoying the learning process, and fostering a genuine love for riding, rather than solely on immediate results. However, all other children activities (from softball to piano) do have “competition” as part of their learning environment and this is what children and their parents expect.
Barns can obviously provide that by staging their own schooling shows and it would help, in the interest of consistency, than rather than having “everything under the sun” at those shows in terms of expectations there were clear standards of what beginners new to Olympic disciplines should achieve in their very first - non-leadline - “educational flatwork” tests. (think UPSC Standards of Proficiency).
I was under the - apparent misconception ? - that designing well thought-out tests was the purview of a more educated body - like the USDF - rather than individual barn owners.
Other countries’ federations have designed various Shetland and pony level “dressage” tests with clear guidelines that are meant to set the foundation for a reasoned growth in the discipline. Why not here?
(Obviously I can - and do - use those European pony tests at my barn, but my reason for starting the thread was my assumption that I am not the only lesson barn instructor facing the same dilemma).

Or do we think there is no need? Are we currently happy about about the state of youth participation in educational flatwork/dressage? Do we feel there is a need for more well-prepared children entering this discipline (and other Olympic disciplines), or are we content with the current numbers and level of preparedness?
While we certainly see a number of very talented young riders at shows, I can’t help but wonder if there’s room for growth.

How can we make dressage more approachable while still emphasizing its importance?

[enjoytheride]

You are the only instructor who believes that Intro A is not suitable, or that the USDF needs to make a new test with entirely different goals below Intro A.

Perhaps your students would be better off in a local Pony Club? They have the testing that you seem to be after.

[anon49845990]

Good to know!
(and they are in Pony Club ).

[FjordBCRF]

@anon49845990

No matter how many times you tell children that assessment is important and an opportunity for growth, scoring very low (and receiving technical feedback beyond their ability and age-level comprehension) can be discouraging and counterproductive from a pedagogical standpoint. When young riders receive low scores, it often leads to frustration and diminished confidence, which can deter them from wanting to continue in the sport.

Personally, I don’t like this conversation just being around scores for kids so young and inexperienced. The goal with all the youth in the program I’m close to is to get down centerline twice. That’s a win for the kids regardless of ANY scores or ribbons they get. And they know that. We all know things are different at horse shows to begin with and you have to be prepared for anything to happen.

This is on you as an instructor to set expectations and if your kids can’t handle a lower score, they aren’t ready to show in whatever they space is. None of the youth I’m involved with get hung up on this. If they got a 50 at their first show and a 55 at their next, it’s considered progress and is celebrated.

If you have judges being nasty to kids in Intro at a schooling show, that’s a different issue entirely.

[Arlomine]

I struggle to understand your dilemma.

If you want something easier for your kids, go do a trot a pole class and the walk-trot flat class at a local HJ schooling show. There is often a whole division with Eq, Pleasure and flat.They can cut corners a bit, they do have to remember a simple course, they will get in the show ring. In many cases, they will be able to warm up with other beginner kids in the same ring with the trainers, all in the Ring together to help them.

If your kid is not able to navigate the intro tests, then, in my opinion it’s not safe to take them to an away show and expect them to manage their ponies in a mixed group of unknown horses warming up in a new place safely. If it’s a matter of low scores, then wait to take them until they can score a 60% at home, and do “test days” in lessons until they can. Or invite a local dressage trainer over to do a little practice show.

I simply don’t get the problem here. You can explain that at first you get lower

scores, and that tells you what to practice to get better scores. You have existing alternatives (easy hunter jumper classes and in-house stuff).

And you are not the only person who keeps kids on longe lines et cetera. I start kids out one-on-one, they are on the longe line with my saintly pony until they can walk and trot with no hands in a bareback pad and are starting canter. until then they are practising walking off the line/steering, and they work in the trot off of the line later, followed by canter off line when they can do no hands canter on the longe line. They don’t go to a show until they can canter safely and do a 60% test at home. Then they can do a walk-trot test at a show.

Pony club may serve you well

[Bogey2]

hahahaha…been there done that on a young horse at training level and I am no kid!

[Bogey2]

@anon49845990

How can we make dressage more approachable while still emphasizing its importance?

Have you noticed that you are not getting a lot of support from others? I saw your comment about young riders feeling defeated by their scores. I took a lot of riders to a lot of schooling shows over the past 20 something years and it was rare anyone felt “defeated” by a low score. My focus was on using the information to improve the score for the next test or the next show. My students knew better than to cry or complain at a horse show because it was poor sportsmanship.
If they didn’t want to work hard to improve then dressage was just not the sport for them. Dressage IS hard at all levels because of what is required to correctly take a horse up the levels.
I promise this is my last response because you are just taking us in circles not actually seeing the really good suggestions here.

[Mander]

@anon49845990

No matter how many times you tell children that assessment is important and an opportunity for growth, scoring very low (and receiving technical feedback beyond their ability and age-level comprehension) can be discouraging and counterproductive from a pedagogical standpoint. When young riders receive low scores, it often leads to frustration and diminished confidence, which can deter them from wanting to continue in the sport.

This to me sounds like you might be setting inappropriate expectations for your kiddos. Maybe by bringing scores to the conversation too much. Kids at my barn hardly even understand what the scores mean, or what constitutes “good”. It’s just not what we focus on. They understand making a mistake in their test, like going off course and being corrected by the judge, or trotting instead of cantering, or whatever. The score may as well just be a random number to them. But if I had kids regularly so devastated by a 50% that they quit riding, I would consider some serious introspection on where I set the expectation of a 50% being “bad” came from.

Feedback beyond their ability/comprehension should also be on the coach to either bring it down to their ability/comprehension, or just ignore it. In general, I don’t see kids scouring test comments the way adults do. Most of them are like “oh, ok. I got XYZ - here mom, hold this!” and that’s the end of it.

[SillyHorse]

I think the OP simply wants to convince us that it’s USDF’s fault that her students can’t ride well enough to navigate a simple walk-trot test. She keeps referring to Olympic disciplines when an Intro A test is beyond her students’ capabilities.

Trying to reason, to offer suggestions, to help, has been an exercise in futility. We just don’t understand! We are confused! Intro is supposed to be for beginners and it isn’t!

@anon49845990

Since the current Intro tests are not meant for beginners (apparently?)

There’s really no point in continuing. The OP simply will not accept the purpose of the tests. Maybe she should go to the USDF convention and explain to them why they are wrong and she is right.

[Beam_Me_Up]

I come from the eventing world, where beginners can’t really show - even the lowest levels of eventing require a skillset that takes years to develop, so I don’t think setting that expectation (showing is for more advanced riders, not beginners) is wrong, but a couple other thoughts:

• I’m not sure lesson program and rated show terminology have ever mapped well. Someone might be considered an intermediate or advanced rider in a lesson program, but still be greener than most riders out showing. An intermediate level event rider is not an intermediate rider in any other sense.

• Based on your descriptions, it does sound like your “intermediate” riders might be better suited to off-site showing than the “elementary” ones, but there is always a wide range of kids at schooling shows, and I’m sure as a trainer you have a sense of what is required to have a positive, if not competitive, outing.

• If you are doing an in-house show, you can judge it however you want. Whether you judge it, or use a friend/assistant, you can choose not to penalize use of voice, or loopy reins, or write your own tests, or have a dressage equitation type class, or whatever you want. There is no reason to feel confined by USDF directives if you just want to give beginners a goal to work toward.

[Libby2563]

@anon49845990

Currently, the Intro guidelines listed in the purpose section and collective gaits can seem a bit daunting for newcomers.
I had assumed that my approach—starting kids without reins until they have truly stable hands and a secure seat—was fairly standard. However, it seems there might be a disconnect between this teaching philosophy and the official USDF guidelines and that as a result young riders like my lesson kiddos are not the “primary audience” for such tests. (I get that!)

I’m trying to understand your concerns. You keep mentioning the reins, so I gather that your concern with the purpose is the mention of “contact”? Are your lesson kids doing WT© independently at home before trying to show Intro? Or are they still riding without reins, presumably just on the longe? Or holding the reins but on no contact? If the latter, again I don’t think they should get terrible scores/comments from a decent judge at a schooling show. Ultimately though, teaching the horse (and rider) to accept and go to elastic contact is important in dressage so they won’t score as well as a pair showing elastic contact/connection, and I don’t think that reflects a failure of the test. At all shows at all levels there will be some pairs who are still working towards the goals of the level and some who have exceeded them.

If you are taking kids who don’t use the reins effectively at home to shows, then…that’s not safe for anyone and they need to wait or do leadline classes in the meantime. I assume/hope this is not the case though!

Have you looked into Western Dressage tests? I bet connection would be less of an issue. Here’s the purpose of WDAA Intro Test 1 (no mention of contact, just “basic aids”): “Tests provide an introduction to the discipline of Western Dressage; the horse performs only at the walk and jog. The rider should demonstrate correct basic position, use of basic aids, and understanding of the figures. The horse should show relaxation; harmony between horse and rider is important. The horse accepts the aids and influence of rider. The jog should be a natural gait within the horse’s scope and should demonstrate a swinging back.”

[SillyHorse]

An important point that has not been discussed much here, and maybe one that the OP doesn’t understand, is that dressage is about training the horse, not the rider. The tests are tests of the horse, not the rider. Sure, rider position and effectiveness are addressed in the collectives, but for all intents and purposes, the horse is being judged. You are showing the judge your horse (or pony). The rider’s experience only comes into play in terms of how well he or she can demonstrate the directives of the movements.

[fivestrideline]

@Mander

This to me sounds like you might be setting inappropriate expectations for your kiddos. Maybe by bringing scores to the conversation too much. Kids at my barn hardly even understand what the scores mean, or what constitutes “good”. It’s just not what we focus on. They understand making a mistake in their test, like going off course and being corrected by the judge, or trotting instead of cantering, or whatever. The score may as well just be a random number to them. But if I had kids regularly so devastated by a 50% that they quit riding, I would consider some serious introspection on where I set the expectation of a 50% being “bad” came from.

Thank you. I was trying to find a way to articulate this.

We focus on having fun and being safe with beginners at shows. Half of the kids you see doing walk/trot and crossrails don’t even know what the ribbons mean - they just want to win their favorite color (or go get ice cream after riding…). The ones that are old enough to get it and are coming out of a good program are aware that they can be disappointed, but that having fun with their pony is all that matters. A good coach will redirect that competitive disappointment into motivation and nip any rudeness (to pony, barnmates, judge, competitors, etc) in the bud.

It should be the same in dressage at the lower levels - if kids are hyper focused on scores and placings, that’s the trainer’s fault for focusing on ALL the wrong things. (Also this doesn’t apply to re-riders and adult beginners. That’s a whole different ball game .)