Are the USDF Intro tests goals "realistic"?

[fivestrideline]

@SillyHorse

An important point that has not been discussed much here, and maybe one that the OP doesn’t understand, is that dressage is about training the horse, not the rider. The tests are tests of the horse, not the rider. Sure, rider position and effectiveness are addressed in the collectives, but for all intents and purposes, the horse is being judged. You are showing the judge your horse (or pony). The rider’s experience only comes into play in terms of how well he or she can demonstrate the directives of the movements.

I wish I could like this 10x

[Jealoushe]

There are horses at 5* events that have incorrect bend. No one is giving your kids 4s for not having good bend at intro.

[Jealoushe]

There really is nothing that should be daunting in Intro tests, if it is then that rider really isn’t ready to show. What’s the big deal if they aren’t ready to show? Go to a different show… just like in eventing there is a basic level of riding required to be showing dressage.

[Bending_Line]

Totally agree. Tell them at their level, scores in the 40’s and 50’s are normal, and some professional dressage riders work their whole life to try to get to 80. Who is telling them a 55 is a bad score? If they are showing against each other and everybody is in the same range, why would they think those are bad scores? You have a little work to educate the parents that it’s not like report card scoring where everyone expects at least an 85…The industry does not have a problem and Intro A/B doesn’t have a problem. If they are not ready to do some 20 meter circles at the trot they may not be ready to show, or they can stick to souped up lead line where you could have them trot on the longe for the judge. The fact that they are not ready for an intro test means you have some more work today. Nobody at all expects to see the Intro pairs in a frame, but it shouldn’t be Western Pleasure style loops in the reins, either.

[anon49845990]

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[Montanas_Girl]

OP, Pretty much every discipline out there is more beginner-friendly than dressage. I don’t understand your snobbery against open and 4-H shows; your students are EXACTLY the kinds of rider those shows are designed for. As someone who has both organized and judged those shows, I can assure you that “safe” is goal #1 for all involved, regardless of breed or type. If your kids can’t handle showing “against” one another in a rail class, well…that’s a problem that needs to be solved well before they get to a show.

In the western world, by the way, it is standard to teach young horses and beginner riders to go forward, steer, perform transitions, and ride patterns before introducing contact and collection.

Edited to add: I don’t really disagree with the OP and her perspective that USEF/USDF have established the “ideal” for Intro level above what is reasonable for riders new to the discipline.

[libgrrl]

My club does Danish System – Ribbons are allocated accordingly. Judge is always happy to briefly meet with the competitor after the test to explain why she gave the scores she did (and all of our judges are very “Intro rider” friendly!) I think all of the kids that rode today on schoolie-type ponies came away happy! They appeared to be happy anyway! OP – I think you need to just attend some schooling shows that are local to you as a bystander. I truly believe that you may just be overthinking…

[Djones]

@SillyHorse this is beautifully stated.

I rode for 30+ years-started colts, rode a few 100 head, before I thought "maybe dressage would help this poor horse. If only either of us knew anything about it…:

[SillyHorse]

@libgrrl

My club does Danish System

This is away from the topic of the thread, but how did that come about? I’ve been trying for quite awhile to get our GMO to consider the Danish System. You’d think I was asking them to kill kittens.

[atlatl]

Correct bend in an intro class essentially means the horse isn’t counter bent. I think the OP is making this harder than it is.

There’s barely any bend in a 20m circle.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

Some of the larger schooling shows in our area divide the Intro classes into Intro Horse, Intro Junior Rider (sometimes divided by age, and Intro Senior Rider (meaning usually any adult, but I have also seen separate classes restricted to riders over a certain age, or amateurs who have never shown at a recognized dressage show). I have also seen “academy” classes restricted to riders on school horses from a lesson program, so lesson students won’t be competing against kids who have their own horse. Sometimes the Training level classes are also divided similarly.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

@Libby2563

Ultimately though, teaching the horse (and rider) to accept and go to elastic contact is important in dressage so they won’t score as well as a pair showing elastic contact/connection, and I don’t think that reflects a failure of the test. At all shows at all levels there will be some pairs who are still working towards the goals of the level and some who have exceeded them.

This! If you want your students to be prepared for even an Intro level dressage class you maybe you probably to introduce riding with (light) contact a bit sooner. You are taking a non-standard approach that doesn’t align with basic dressage principles having your students ride with a slack rein past their first few lessons. Don’t expect dressage principles to change to conform to what you are teaching! And if you think Lendon Gray or any other prominent trainer has kids riding in shows with a drooping rein please cite your source because I believe you are misinformed. Regarding bend, as long as the horse is not actually counter-bent they won’t be penalized much if at all at Intro or even Training level. BUT you should be teaching from fairly early that when doing a circle or turn in dressage the horse should be have at least a slight bend in the direction of the turn or circle. If you are not willing to teach these things to students for several years, you need to admit to yourself that you are not actually teaching them dressage basics. But don’t ask USDF not to encourage riders to strive for these same basics because you are not teaching them. I would add that when your riders go to shows away from your barn, they and their parents will probably notice that what they are being taught (drooping reins) is not standard practice.

[Highflyer1]

The barn I ride at has a lot of beginner and therapeutic riders-- at the dressage shows and CTs they hold, they offer these leadline tests which have an off lead option as well. A is just walk, B has a small amount of trot. There’s also a Special Olympics test that’s just walk. They’re often combined with a poles jumping round for the CT. Most of the mainstream riders and some of the therapeutic ones graduate to riding Intro or the Starter or BN eventing tests eventually. All of the shows are judged by local L judges so that they can be sanctioned by the local GMO. LEADLINE-DRESSAGE-TEST-B-2011.pdf (50.3 KB) LEADLINE-DRESSAG-TEST-A-2011.pdf (31.9 KB)

[fivestrideline]

Slight tangent but I know a few programs that start all their riders in side pulls for a lot of the same reasons OP is concerned about. The difference is these riders are quickly learning to have a soft following contact with the horse, and graduate to a bit when they can reliably stay balanced and steady. The programs teach proper basics that align more with dressage, no looping reins here.

I think OP could easily accomplish the horse welfare concept they are chasing while also instilling proper basics in their riders by using the lunge and side pull methods until the riders have more independent hands. They could even allow side pulls at their in-barn shows and judge to the Intro test (since they seem dead set on using USDF tests).

Last tangent, but the no contact thing makes more sense in Western disciplines with neck reining installed. Western dressage exists and is a growing discipline with tests written more to the goals OP seems to have in mind. Why not switch to WD?

[quietann]

When I was a tween/teen, my instructor used her highly trained but gentle personal horse, and Morgan/QH mare, in lessons - but only in a side pull until a student had good steady hands. It was a great honor to be allowed to ride that mare in a bit; not all students progressed to where they could.

BTW in Western Dressage, riding with two hands is allowed. And controversial!

[Mondo]

@anon49845990

Well from a pedagogical perspective, setting kids out for doing a poor job is not the best in my opinion.
And the feedback that they tend to get (more bend, etc) is typically way beyond their skills at this level (and when we’re talking young kids, they can’t even see what the endline is - they just think they did poorly and might gravitate to something else where they feel they are “winning”).

I haven’t managed to get through to the last 55 posts yet, but reading up to this point, I need to tell you - your kids are not ready to show, even at Intro Level. You said yourself, you are no dressage rider. You’re teaching little kids beginning riding skills, not dressage. Why do you want to take them to dressage shows if you think the requirements of the tests are too “hard?” Local schooling shows with flat classes often offer beginner classes (walk/trot) and maiden classes for a horse and/or child who has never won a ribbon. What possible good will it do them to ride a dressage test? And what possesses you to think that USDF owes you, a non-dressage professional, simplified tests? I was never a fan of Intro level. I wouldn’t permit my students to show until they could manage a Training Level test with a degree of competence. (yeah, I know, I’m a hard-ass). But when I began judging schooling shows and 4H shows (tons of them) I changed my mind. I loved seeing kids at the Intro levels. No, they didn’t often get scores in the 70%+ range, but it gave me an opportunity to encourage them in their journey, and maybe point out where they could focus on improving. Not once did I see a kid unable to manage the basic requirements. A lot of them rode on fairly long reins. I wouldn’t be too hard on scoring that lack of contact, I would simply mention in my comments at the end that perhaps a little more contact could help with ease of movements. As a professional dressage instructor, my advice to you is for you to take some dressage lessons. You have an imperfect understanding of contact. Also the bend required at Intro is fairly rudimentary. Nobody wants to see a little kid on a school pony trying to execute a volte for crying out loud. You’re searching for a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.

[outerbanks77]

@anon49845990

USDF Introductory Level: To introduce the rider and/or horse to the sport of dressage. To show understanding of riding the horse forward with a steady tempo into an elastic contact with independent, steady hands and a correctly balanced seat. To show proper geometry of figures in the arena with correct bend (corners and circles).

If we go by the common philosophy that a rider and horse are ready to progress to the next level when scoring in the 60’s, this doesn’t seem unreasonable at all. Would you want to move a student up to a training level test if they weren’t showing competence in these skills? IMO, this should be used to incentivize kids with something to work towards, so they can graduate to the W/T/C classes.

[saratoga]

As long as the horse and rider combo are under control, are not a danger to themselves or others, and can go around the arena in a close approximation of the proper geometry, I dont see the harm in entering a schooling show at the Intro level, even if the horse is slogging along with its head in the air or whatever. Every one has to start somewhere and going out to shows is fun!. As far as scores at schooling shows, I’ve seen it really vary- judges that I think give decent scores for just riding around calmly and obediently, but also low scores where the horse and rider were clearly not meeting the goals for the test in the least. I think also a lot of schooling shows really could use the support in the form of participants, so I say go for it!

[libgrrl]

That one was pretty easy for us after it was proposed, and really a win-win for our club. Competitors tend to want to get their placings right away – not always possible if we can’t keep all of the “Training 1” rides together, etc. Volunteers (doing their best to score as quickly as they can) don’t necessarily want impatient riders (wanting to load up and go home) hanging over them waiting for their test and ribbon. This is quick and easy, and (as a club) we just purchase a whole bunch of blue, red and white ribbons, and the riders get their tests – which is the most important part anyway

[outerbanks77]

@saratoga

As long as the horse and rider combo are under control, are not a danger to themselves or others, and can go around the arena in a close approximation of the proper geometry, I dont see the harm in entering a schooling show at the Intro level, even if the horse is slogging along with its head in the air or whatever. Every one has to start somewhere and going out to shows is fun!.

I agree with that, but I think it also makes sense that they should get feedback and a score that reflects the need to continue working on skills before moving up. Absolutely the judge should be kind and provide constructive comments. Hell, I once showed a horse at T-1 and she was about to blow a gasket so we trotted the canter movements. The judge let us finish and we got a 38% and nice comments that amounted to “thank you for not making me watch you die today.”