Arena Sand Recommendations

[centerline]

Hi all,
I’m getting ready to begin construction on an outdoor arena (yay!) and have been speaking with several contractors/getting sand samples. It’s been recommended that I go with a DG (decomposed granite) base, with C-33 sand on top. Does anyone have any experience with this?

 I received a sample of sand for which the sieve analysis was close to C-33 specifications, but it seemed a lot "finer" than many sands that I've seen used in arenas. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I am concerned with it blowing away. It appears to be about 70% sand to about 30% fines, which I've heard can be a good ratio for stability.

Any thoughts? What has worked/not worked for you? I'm considering a sand with some sort of limestone screenings mixed in. I'm hoping I can get a fairly "stable" sand without having to water it a lot. I live on the West Coast, and water is precious out here. Definitely interested in a sand type footing, if I can get away with it, rather than something with additives (rubber, fibers, etc.). I want to use this arena for dressage and jumping up to about 3'6". It's a private arena, probably 2-4 horses a day, absolute max.

Sorry for the novel and thank you in advance!

[candico]

The best advice I can give is to get out to the local big barns and ask their managers what they have been most happy with. I think we have about four different sand distributors and their “arena” sand each seem to be just a bit different. I prefer a larger grain as I have plenty of fines now that my arenas are older, but starting fresh, you might find those larger grains won’t compact enough leaving you with a sand that is too loose requiring a lot of water to bind which is not great in our drought condition. The angulation of the grains plays a part as well - too round is not good. Most important - too little to start in depth is better than too much! And seal before any El Niño downpours

[airhorse]

Angular, less is better, keep wet.

[GrayMare]

I would not settle for a sand that was 30% fines without shopping around. That is a very high level of fines, it will make for dusty footing. Ideally you want a coarse, angular, quartz sand with a very small percentage of fines. You want to avoid round (river or beach) sands, and sands composed of soft minerals like feldspar and mica.

[centerline]

Thank you all for the replies, I very much appreciate the insight If anyone knows of a particular blend that works well, I would love to know. Any thoughts on DG as a base (how well it works, etc.) would be great as well! I thought 30% fines seemed a little high, but know that some are required for stability in the sand. I definitely don’t want to end up with something that’s too lose.
Thanks!

[candico]

I would shop around for DG as well. It works great as a base, but like the sand you will find all different qualities. Just let them know what you need it for and that you want it to set up nearly like concrete. Some places can put an additive into the DG mix to set it up harder. Do you have an “arena guy” that will be spreading, leveling, rolling, for you? A local arena installer will know where to get the best materials for the best prices for your particular area. I did 3in of CMB, 2in of DG, and 2in sand, all laser leveled. My base has held up fantastic and my arena is rideable before most any other arena in the area after a big rain. A good drag is essential as well, but for a well done, brand new arena you can get away with something pretty basic for the first few years, IMO.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I second visiting as many local barns as possible. For example, I have friends with local pink quartzite arenas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sioux_Quartzite and the sand (angular) is very abrasive. One friend has to put duct tape on the front of her horse’s hooves before riding.

I have a question. When you are using DG as a base, I assume you are removing top soil. Are you then compacting the native subbase and adding DG, or do you need to truck in clay (if that is not the native soil) and compact that and then do the DG? Thank you. I hope that isn’t too much of a hijack, I really appreciate the info and am enjoying reading this thread.

What is CMB??

We don’t have “arena” builders here, so I am doing lots of research. I do have Underfoot too.

[candico]

Hmm… I honestly can’t remember if we compacted the existing soil because I think the wet clay/mud would have stuck too much to the ride-on roller we used, but I do believe we laser leveled that too before adding the “crushed miscellaneous base” which is pretty much the stuff leftover from when they scrape up streets before resurfacing. It usually has mostly asphalt, concrete, and gravel - sometimes even bits of tile. It is cheap and sets up as a really solid base for the DG. Sometimes around here, if you put the DG on top of the existing ground you can get spots that sink or have rocks, etc. that works its way up through the base. Not sure if you would run into the same problem in the Midwest. My arena is designed so all the water sheet flows off of it rather than drains through during heavy rain. Hope that helps!

A long while ago, I thought I read here on COTH someone who had an arena made of crushed egg shells out there in the Midwest. That sounded so fascinating, but not sure of the smell!

[Mosey_2003]

[QUOTE=centerline;8402035]
Hi all,
I’m getting ready to begin construction on an outdoor arena (yay!) and have been speaking with several contractors/getting sand samples. It’s been recommended that I go with a DG (decomposed granite) base, with C-33 sand on top. Does anyone have any experience with this?[/QUOTE]
Granite sounds fine, as long as it will pack in.

I received a sample of sand for which the sieve analysis was close to C-33 specifications, but it seemed a lot “finer” than many sands that I’ve seen used in arenas. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but I am concerned with it blowing away. It appears to be about 70% sand to about 30% fines, which I’ve heard can be a good ratio for stability.

I’m not familiar with C-33 in particular. What you need to know is if it’s a natural sand or a manufactured sand. You want manufactured, as natural sand is round particles and those are NOT recommended for arena use. As it’s specified 70% sand to 30% fines, I might assume it’s a natural sand. I do not know whether mixing it with fines would make it stable enough or not.

Any thoughts? What has worked/not worked for you? I’m considering a sand with some sort of limestone screenings mixed in. I’m hoping I can get a fairly “stable” sand without having to water it a lot. I live on the West Coast, and water is precious out here. Definitely interested in a sand type footing, if I can get away with it, rather than something with additives (rubber, fibers, etc.). I want to use this arena for dressage and jumping up to about 3’6". It’s a private arena, probably 2-4 horses a day, absolute max.

You’re going to have to water probably whatever natural material you get, it’s dusty by design. Limestone is what I deal in, the screenings will add stability, but also are dusty and will tend to ‘set up’ if there’s too much and they get wet and then not worked in.

Your best bet is going to be asking what others in the area are happy with, as advised above.

[EmilyM]

when i was doing my ring, i learned a little bit about this. I was told that you want a sand that has various different size granuales so that it doesn’t get either very hard and packed or end up being abrasive. the different sizes allow it to have some air and some fluff. i needed something relatively low maintenance. I only ride up to 3 horses a day in it. I show in the hunters and jump in the ring as well. I personally dislike what i call “fancy footing” to train on all the time, because I think it lacks give.

I ended up with a limestone base of about 6-7 inches which they allowed to harden after rolling it flat. THen we added 2.5 inches of quartz sand mixed with about .5 inches of saw dust which acts like rubber but is 1/10th of the price (and doesn’t last as long).

I’m happy with my footing. my ring however has too much slope and I lose a lot in heavy rains (but don’t have puddles). So grading is also important to the equation. Not too little and not too much.

[Mosey_2003]

[QUOTE=EmilyM;8405322]
I’m happy with my footing. my ring however has too much slope and I lose a lot in heavy rains (but don’t have puddles). So grading is also important to the equation. Not too little and not too much.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if you could put some french drains in and cut down on the amount of traveling water?

[Jumper_girl221]

[QUOTE=candico;8404417]
Hmm… I honestly can’t remember if we compacted the existing soil because I think the wet clay/mud would have stuck too much to the ride-on roller we used, but I do believe we laser leveled that too before adding the “crushed miscellaneous base” which is pretty much the stuff leftover from when they scrape up streets before resurfacing. It usually has mostly asphalt, concrete, and gravel - sometimes even bits of tile. It is cheap and sets up as a really solid base for the DG. Sometimes around here, if you put the DG on top of the existing ground you can get spots that sink or have rocks, etc. that works its way up through the base. Not sure if you would run into the same problem in the Midwest. My arena is designed so all the water sheet flows off of it rather than drains through during heavy rain. Hope that helps!

A long while ago, I thought I read here on COTH someone who had an arena made of crushed egg shells out there in the Midwest. That sounded so fascinating, but not sure of the smell![/QUOTE]

My ring is crushed shell, but its a crushed shell sand not egg shells lol.

Here’s a picture of it (after a horse show, so you can see how it holds up to traffic!!!)

We have clay soil, so removed the top soil, compacted the clay, then hauled this shell in. It is a ‘harder’ footing, so my goal over the winter is to slowly haul in some “regular” sand with no shell and mix it with the top layer, slowly so it doesn’t get deep…I detest a deep ring plus have a horse with an old suspensory injury that I show in the hunters so try to be careful. One thing I don’t want ot lose is how this sand doesn’t get soupy or slippery and really holds traction even when extremely wet.

a “before” picture from the day before our show

[Jumper_girl221]

[QUOTE=EmilyM;8405322]
when i was doing my ring, i learned a little bit about this. I was told that you want a sand that has various different size granuales so that it doesn’t get either very hard and packed or end up being abrasive. the different sizes allow it to have some air and some fluff. i needed something relatively low maintenance. I only ride up to 3 horses a day in it. I show in the hunters and jump in the ring as well. I personally dislike what i call “fancy footing” to train on all the time, because I think it lacks give.

I ended up with a limestone base of about 6-7 inches which they allowed to harden after rolling it flat. THen we added 2.5 inches of quartz sand mixed with about .5 inches of saw dust which acts like rubber but is 1/10th of the price (and doesn’t last as long).

I’m happy with my footing. my ring however has too much slope and I lose a lot in heavy rains (but don’t have puddles). So grading is also important to the equation. Not too little and not too much.[/QUOTE]

A cheap fix we did for ours is cut a few small drains into the ring, then add some larger gravel. The water drains out, but the gravel helps “catch” the sand so we don’t lose that.

[candico]

Interesting about what I assume is basically sea shells? Did it ever smell fishy? And it is not too round it sounds like as you say the traction is good. Does it have any iridescence from Abalone shells? Now that might be cooler than an Easter egg shell arena

[centerline]

Thank you all for the great responses! I’m very much enjoying reading through this thread, and what everyone has and has not done with their rings.

Candico – I have contacted some local construction companies who have built arenas in the past. There is one man in particular that I believe I will end up using, and he recommended something called “sugar sand” but I have yet to get the sieve analysis or sample of it. We shall see how it is when it arrives! He mostly does reining/roping type arenas, but I’ve seen some of his rings and they are all built nicely and drain well.

TrotTrotPumpkin – good to know about the quartz sand! I have always felt that some of the angular sands are a bit too rough, but it’s pretty crazy that they have to duct tape the horse’s feet. I’ll definitely keep that in mind.

JumperGirl --beautiful ring! Thank you for sharing the pictures

Emily – thank you for the info I originally wanted to do limestone for my base, but when I heard what it was going to cost to get the materials to my area, I decided I would look into the DG base suggestion, hahaha. My trainer has it in her ring, and it works beautifully!

Unfortunately there is not a lot in the way of barns with nice arenas near me, or at least not with nice sand arenas. It seems to be that the bigger barns have GGT (or some other synthetic) and most other people just kind of drag a spot that works for dry weather. I am pretty set on a footing without synthetic additives, as I want something that I can leave alone if I go out of town (it’s just my horses at home) and don’t have to get someone to drag & water when I’m not even using it…

[Jumper_girl221]

[QUOTE=candico;8405950]
Interesting about what I assume is basically sea shells? Did it ever smell fishy? And it is not too round it sounds like as you say the traction is good. Does it have any iridescence from Abalone shells? Now that might be cooler than an Easter egg shell arena ;)[/QUOTE]

It’s a run of sand here, so basically small teeny crushed sea shells then sand. There are a few conch shells I had to pick out and a few larger shells, but it’s very angular and no fishy smell. I personally prefer a higher sand mixture so we’ll be hauling in some regular sand now that it’s settled and compacted. I’ve always wondered if this would mix good with rubber (this is my second ring with this material).

Biggest thing is after a hard rain all the shells come to the surface and make a crust so you have to drag to mix it all back up.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I don’t know why I didn’t recall this before, but I have another friend with an outdoor that I really like. She just has a compacted clay base (lucky duck, the clay was just there) and her sand is “mason sand.” I will say she has an indoor too, so if it is raining for a week, drainage isn’t as big of a problem (as in I’m not suggesting just clay will work for everyone). The mason sand is a mix of different size particles and it works really well. It is angular, but not as aggressive as the quartzite. I’m pretty sure they just use a simple drag and I doubt she waters it.

It has been there for many years and her husband was telling me he needs to get the tractor out and pull some back to the higher side, but I think overall it has been pretty maintenance free.

[fanfayre]

Hi, OP;
as a rule, C-33 shouldn’t have any more than 10% fines, so the specs you were given aren’t really for C-33. Are you on the Island? I wonder how much of that specific sand has been used?:eek:

Mosey, C-33 is an engineered sand specification that was used to build sand mounds for septic disposal fields. In the past year or so it has fallen out of favour by septic planners because that 10% fines may have too much of the very fine particles and not enough ‘larger’ fine particles.
OP, my vet has a very well built ring topped with C-33 because it is angular and washed. And, I believe, her base/subbase is DG- her arena is built up a lot, at any rate. I think, if you require the C-33 to be washed to no more than 10% fines you should be good to use it. The problem with the large amount of fines is it will be very dusty in dry weather without watering, not an issue of stability. Stability comes from the angularity of the sand particles themselves. I’m jealous - my (unusable) ring still has hog on it and the weather’s not letting my excavator guy in to strip it down to firm footing so I’m not doing much riding atm.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

When you guys are talking about arenas that are built up higher than the surrounding land and that run water off, what are you using that works the best around the sand to hold it in, BUT let the water out? I’m afraid RR ties or wood would just trap the water…

[candico]

Mine all drains to one corner where it escape through a gap we left in the railroad ties. We have to fill it in a bit after a decent rain, but even with my one arena that has rubber tire mixed in, the loss of footing is extremely minimal. My jumping arena has a base board, but none at the gate which is my low spot there. We just push whatever sand spills out back with the tractor which also isn’t much. A good firm seal is the key to keep the water running over the footing not into it.