Arena topping

[EmilyF]

I just installed a sand arena 70x140ft at our new house. We had it graded, compacted and then put washed sand down on top. So far its been great (although a little flyaway in the heat). But now its the wet season I need something extra. The drainage is working well and the standing water disappears fairly quickly. But the sand has no sheer strength when its wet, and the horses find it deep in spots and can punch down through it to the base.

I want to add a surface on top that will allow me to ride straight after a storm and not have to leave it 2 days for the sand to dry. My first choice is Fibar as it sits on top of the sand and is basically its own surface. Plus its very cost effective.

2nd choice is geotextile, such as FS Geotex. Still reasonably cheap but will require a special drag and correct installation. Plus it mixes with the sand so I’m concerned about the punching through issue still.

I haven’t really considered rubber, as the CA summers can get ridiculously hot and I figure black rubber will be a nightmare. Should I think about it or just write it off?

Any ideas welcome, and yes, I have searched this forum extensively already

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

If the rubber isn’t integrated doesn’t it just float away when it rains? I thought you HAD to mix in whatever additives you do with sand…

Won’t it get super deep if you add another top layer?

IDK. Looking forward to hearing what others say.

[Pocket_Pony]

It sounds like maybe you used a concrete sand on top of your base? Do you even have a base aside from just the dirt?

We did: graded, compacted dirt; road base; oiled the road base; washed concrete sand.

I didn’t like the concrete sand - it was too loose and actually was better when wet, but it didn’t give enough firmness for my liking. So I had someone come in and take that sand out, put down “crusher dust” (coarse, angular sand, not round like the first sand), and then mix back in the concrete sand. It makes for a good mix of hard sand and soft sand and holds up well to weather - it isn’t too “slippery” and doesn’t feel like it gets too deep.

I have no idea about additives, as I haven’t gone that route. I do have a friend who put rubber and sand in her round pen and I think after she put in the rubber it was too deep.

[IPEsq]

Tennis shoe rubber works well where it’s hot, if that’s still a thing (and I agree all additives should be mixed in)

[EmilyF]

Yes, its just compacted dirt under the arena. The whole compacted base, with concrete dust makes no sense to me at all from a drainage perspective, plus it triples the cost and we are on a tight budget. The base drains fabulously considering we’ve had over 10" of rain in under 2 weeks and I have no standing water. Its just the sand doesn’t hold together well enough to ride on for a few days after the rain stops.

Not sure what type of sand it is - the quarry said it was arena grade and they supplied the same sand to a local equestrian centre. The other place added GGT to the same sand and their arena is fabulous.

THats what I’m worried about with the rubber, that it will either wash away or mix in with the sand and just become really deep. I’m thinking if I add in some kind of geotextile like GGT or FS Geotex then it will hold the sand together more like turf?

The fibar is tempting since it goes on top of the surface rather than needing to be mixed in. Although I’m having trouble contacting them for a sample, anyone know if they are still in business?

[Jim_in_PA]

Emily, the purpose of the base preparation is to remove all the organics (to prevent future mud and soil infiltration) and allow for slope/drainage under the footing. It really can make a difference so that you don’t have water pooling in areas under your footing. Other methods for surface water direction are also a good idea to minimize the flow of water “into” the area to begin with. There are many steps to get to the “bestest” arena installation, but yes, one has to consider costs and made decisions accordingly.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=EmilyF;7914986]
Yes, its just compacted dirt under the arena. The whole compacted base, with concrete dust makes no sense to me at all from a drainage perspective, plus it triples the cost and we are on a tight budget. The base drains fabulously considering we’ve had over 10" of rain in under 2 weeks and I have no standing water. Its just the sand doesn’t hold together well enough to ride on for a few days after the rain stops.

Well, putting in sand on top of stone dust on top of your compacted dirt would prevent you from punching through to the dirt.

Not sure what type of sand it is - the quarry said it was arena grade and they supplied the same sand to a local equestrian centre. The other place added GGT to the same sand and their arena is fabulous.

Then perhaps you can call them and ask them what kind of ratio they had? Perhaps they have a different kind of base as well? Some sands don’t do well on their own but mix great with other things - some sands are great on their own (I’ve ridden in some arenas that were a great river sand and I really liked those). Perhaps that other arena’s original plan was to mix something in so they specifically got that type of sand. When I was building mine, the guys said it was the sand they typically use for arenas, but I didn’t like it in mine. And having ridden in other arenas that use exclusively that sand, I don’t like their footing, either.

THats what I’m worried about with the rubber, that it will either wash away or mix in with the sand and just become really deep. I’m thinking if I add in some kind of geotextile like GGT or FS Geotex then it will hold the sand together more like turf?

Do you have kickboards up so your footing won’t wash away?

The fibar is tempting since it goes on top of the surface rather than needing to be mixed in. Although I’m having trouble contacting them for a sample, anyone know if they are still in business?[/QUOTE]

I used to ride in a Fibar arena and liked it a lot, but that was some years ago - don’t know anything about them now.

[EmilyF]

Thanks for the input.

Jim, we did the best we could for our budget. The construction companies were quoting $18k in materials alone to put a base under our sand. We have a good slope in the base, so generally the water doesn’t stick around for long. If I could go back, with more money, I would have added a membrane between the ground and the sand. I think that would have helped. Maybe when things dry out I can revisit that idea…

PoPo, if I had stone dust underneath the sand, wouldn’t I be punching through to that instead of the dirt? At least the dirt clumps together so I can patch repair the spots where its gotten mixed in. I’m not sure I understand? I agree tho, I’m not a fan of pure sand. We are lucky here in CA that we don’t get much rain so during the long summers riding isn’t a problem. Its these wet month that I don’t want to miss out on riding.

I have no arena fence, my boundary is railroad ties which seems to work well with keeping the sand in place.

[Jim_in_PA]

Compacted “modified” stone, including screenings/stone dust, that is installed properly under a footing shouldn’t migrate up unless something gets deep enough to disturb it.

You likely could install geotextile fabric under your sand “relatively easy”, but it really should be down deep with a base layer over top. Too thin of a layer on top makes for easy damage by a “grooming gone too deep” or a digging hoof.

[BeeHoney]

It may not be so much that you are “punching down” to your base as it is that the compacted dirt underneath is just coming up and mixing in with your footing.

[keatssu]

I’m afraid that your problem is due to the lack of a base. We have 6 inches of compacted stone dust. They used the vibrating roller to compact it. We have washed concrete sand mixed with 1/2 inch of rubber which together is around 2 1/2 inches deep. When the horse hits a shallow spot the base stays completely intact.

The rubber will float to the surface and wash down to the lower end of the ring in very heavy rain. I think adding a coarse sand like class I sand would work just as well and is much less expensive.

What can happen when you try to cut corners to cut expenses is that you wind up spending more to fix the problems than you would have if it had been done correctly in the first place. I would advise against adding any expensive footing to try to solve the problem. I agree that adding stone dust would probably help and it would be less expensive.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Emily,

I think I get your situation better now. Most people around here can’t afford to do anything else either. They do a compacted clay (natural) base and then sand on top. Some drag a bit of the clay dirt in with the sand to give it more hold (not sure how to explain better). This does seem to work, but you need to do more drag maintenance.

Regardless, after heavy rain the arena is not useable. I think you either have to do the extra drainage layers or deal with the dry wait. I wouldn’t ride if you are punching into the base. That did happen at a barn I boarded at (who had very angular sand, so it wasn’t the sand) when they overwatered/saturated the indoor arena one time. Their arena was similar construction to yours. That was the only time I hit the base, but it was bad–very slippery for the horse.

Could you try to incorporate some of the angular sand into the footing like suggested to see if that helps?

Finally, wondering out loud, does anyone know if GGT type additive would help with binding the sand here? Personally, I wouldn’t do rubber in an outdoor for fear of it pooling away.

Whatever you figure out please share. I am hoping to do my home arena next year and will face the same budget issue. I simply can’t spend 20k on an outdoor. I will never get the money back out and I don’t know we will live here that long.

[horsepoor]

I have to agree with the last two posters that the lack of base is probably the main problem. You’ll always have to wait for the ring to dry out or you will punch through. I can’t see how adding anything will help that problem without making it too deep. But I am not an arena expert; so anything I have to say is worth exactly what you are paying for it.

As for the comments about rubber floating away – I have rubber as part of my outdoor arena footing mixture. It will come to the top in heavy rains, and if I didn’t have kkckboards around to keep footing in, I would likely lose more than I do. But I haven’t had it displace too much and I live in the land of RAIN (Pacific NW - foothills where I get 40"+ per year). Once I can get in to harrow again, it mixes back in. There are washouts in places, sure, from when we got the super heavy rain that might overtop my retaining wall and take some footing out – but I’ve lost far more sand in those incidents than rubber. If I was losing rubber downslope on my arena in large quantities, I’d be losing everything - sand, fiber, whatever is in my arena. And that would point to a larger problem in ring design than just the use of rubber. I am NOT suggesting rubber for the OP, just addressing that concern voiced by others.

[Valentina_32926]

I didn’t do anything special to my arena (sand based - I am in Florida) but I added some clay and mixed with the sand. After a flood my arena can clear in a matter of hours, or if really bad rain - a day.

[Jim_in_PA]

[QUOTE=Valentina_32926;7916767]
I didn’t do anything special to my arena (sand based - I am in Florida) but I added some clay and mixed with the sand. After a flood my arena can clear in a matter of hours, or if really bad rain - a day.[/QUOTE]

Where you are makes a difference…Florida soil is naturally sandy, unlike many other areas of the country. That promotes prompt draining. “Here”, we need to make sure there is a proper base and that it’s sloped correctly to clear ground water from an arena area because the clays typically in the ground don’t promote absorption. (It’s for this same reason that sand mounds now make up most septic systems…)