Arghhhhh!

[AmmyByNature]

It looked to me like a pro addressing issues for an ammy or junior client. Like an adult getting on a naught pony to muscle some sense into it.

Were there parts of it I found not tactful? Yes. There were parts that we very aggressive. But there were also moments that I thought were very clever by the rider.

Basically, I’m not willing to crucify this rider for this one particular ride without knowing more details. I’ve seen trainers put completely warranted rides similar to that on horses at home, and we don’t know that this horse doesn’t have an issue that only arises in the show ring that had come to a head and needed to be addressed.

Or maybe I’m wrong and he’s terrible and evil and we should look up his address and burn his house to the ground. And surely CoTH, and not the horse’s owner, would be the best entity to determine if we should do that, right?

Just maybe lets not judge this ride without knowing the back story.

[Cascades]

[QUOTE=Belmont;8504459]
You have never gotten angry at your horse or a horse, ever? I’m not saying you yank on their mouth in the middle of a course, but it’s hard for me to believe that you or a person has never been upset or angry while riding. I’m not saying bad behavior is okay, but I am saying that it can be easy to let emotions get better of you. As much as I want to be 100% calm and collected all the time, I am not naive enough to say that I am. When my lovely horse ran away with me and split open my finger, did I get angry? Yes. Did I slam him down? No. I stopped him, took a deep breath, and I just walked until I felt like I could make a rational decision. Horses are humbling animals.[/QUOTE]

As a child learning to ride, certainly I got angry while riding. As an adult that understands that horses do things for a reason, not just to get the better of you, no, I don’t get angry. What would be the point? He’s a horse - he isn’t intentionally trying to ruin my day.

I do not agree that there is ever an acceptable reason to lose your temper with a horse, nor do I agree that it’s the “human” thing to do.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=AmmyByNature;8504477]
It looked to me like a pro addressing issues for an ammy or junior client. Like an adult getting on a naught pony to muscle some sense into it.

Were there parts of it I found not tactful? Yes. There were parts that we very aggressive. But there were also moments that I thought were very clever by the rider.

Basically, I’m not willing to crucify this rider for this one particular ride without knowing more details. I’ve seen trainers put completely warranted rides similar to that on horses at home, and we don’t know that this horse doesn’t have an issue that only arises in the show ring that had come to a head and needed to be addressed.

Or maybe I’m wrong and he’s terrible and evil and we should look up his address and burn his house to the ground. And surely CoTH, and not the horse’s owner, would be the best entity to determine if we should do that, right?

Just maybe lets not judge this ride without knowing the back story.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. Good post.

[AffirmedHope]

How old is this video? The sign above the entrance to the international arena is still the blue one, which it hasn’t been for several years now. I also don’t think that the show is using the Trump jump this year and I haven’t seen the orange and blue music note jump standards from Athens for a few years. Why is this video only surfacing now?

[longtimelurker]

[QUOTE=AffirmedHope;8504517]
How old is this video? The sign above the entrance to the international arena is still the blue one, which it hasn’t been for several years now. I also don’t think that the show is using the Trump jump this year and I haven’t seen the orange and blue music note jump standards from Athens for a few years. Why is this video only surfacing now?[/QUOTE]

Description says WEF 5 2013.

[nccatnip]

No evil plot to burn down someones house or burn them at the stake. Just a video of poor Horsemanship to spark dialogue. Age of the video is not an excuse.

[longtimelurker]

[QUOTE=nccatnip;8504556]
No evil plot to burn down someones house or burn them at the stake. Just a video of poor Horsemanship to spark dialogue. Age of the video is not an excuse.[/QUOTE]

Ohh, I don’t know. I think it’s a bit odd that someone dug it out and then it surfaced here and on Diva at the same time. Not saying it’s an evil plot but just strange that a 3 year old video (of a horse that doesn’t seem to be currently showing?) suddenly crops up.

[AmmyByNature]

[QUOTE=nccatnip;8504556]
No evil plot to burn down someones house or burn them at the stake. Just a video of poor Horsemanship to spark dialogue. Age of the video is not an excuse.[/QUOTE]

Well, the way the video was presented and the title of the thread maybe don’t align with your stated altruistic intentions. Certainly smells a little witch-hunty to me.

Perhaps editing your title and OP to indicate that you hope to “spark dialogue” would be helpful toward that end? I do think that an interesting discussion could be had as to how much “schooling” should be seen in the show ring. But posting a video that shows something like that with the title “Arghhhhhh!!” might not be the best way to get to that discussion.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=nccatnip;8504556]
No evil plot to burn down someones house or burn them at the stake. Just a video of poor Horsemanship to spark dialogue. Age of the video is not an excuse.[/QUOTE]
I find that most people who simply want a discussion or have a question post something in their original post other than just a link.

[nccatnip]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8504571]
I find that most people who simply want a discussion or have a question post something in their original post other than just a link.[/QUOTE]

And that makes you some sort of an expert at something?
Don’t know the rider nor the horse, so I will repeat. No evil plot. Maybe if you read that very, very slowly it might sink in.
I truly find it interesting at how many posters will find that sort of riding acceptable. And how many don’t.

[shadedingray]

I wasn’t really offended by this rider’s riding until the stop. It’s hard to see really well, but it looks like the rider went crooked into the approach and you could easily tell the horse was going to stop a few strides out.

I think the correction was very harsh considering the crooked approach. A 6 foot tall man lifting his hand that high to bring a crop down on the horse’s butt would produce a lot of force. I also don’t think hitting the horse twice was necessary.

Besides the above and the fact that the guy looks a bit too big for this horse, his riding was not horrid.

EDIT: Watched the last part of the video and then watched it again. I do not agree with a few of this rider’s corrective techniques throughout the course, but I do not know this horse or rider. I think he could have had more tact in his riding and his size is not suited to this horse comfortably, but other than that, he does seem to be a proficient rider.

[AmmyByNature]

[QUOTE=nccatnip;8504596]
And that makes you some sort of an expert at something?
Don’t know the rider nor the horse, so I will repeat. No evil plot. Maybe if you read that very, very slowly it might sink in.
I truly find it interesting at how many posters will find that sort of riding acceptable. And how many don’t.[/QUOTE]

Ooo! How dramatic! very exciting!

[Montanas_Girl]

[QUOTE=AmmyByNature;8504477]
It looked to me like a pro addressing issues for an ammy or junior client. Like an adult getting on a naught pony to muscle some sense into it.

Were there parts of it I found not tactful? Yes. There were parts that we very aggressive. But there were also moments that I thought were very clever by the rider.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. It looked like a “come to Jesus” session to me. Sometimes those aren’t pretty, and sometimes they have to take place in public - clever horses are more than capable of learning the difference between the schooling ring and show ring and what they can get away with in each environment. There were a couple of moments that looked harsh, but without knowing the horse or the situation, I don’t feel qualified to make a judgement call about the rider’s choice of corrections. A two minute video doesn’t supply much evidence either way. The horse’s expression certainly didn’t indicate an animal who has been mishandled.

[Spud_amp_Saf]

Definitely not how I would want to present myself in the show ring.

I see a lot the horse being told to go and stop at the same time. If both of those training issues are going on, IMO, you drop down a few levels and sort it out there or at home. If it’s really not going well on course, there is always the option retire.

[Gumby80]

Horse looks very strong, and like he’s inclined to plow through the rider’s hands and get difficult to steer. I’m assuming that’s the reason for the rather sharp corrections throughout the course. But then he also seems to tune out and lag behind the rider’s leg on several occasions, including just before the stop. I expect he’s one of those horses who is a lot more difficult to ride than he looks.

That said, I can understand one spank at a stop, but the other stuff … if this is excusable as a “schooling session” or a CTJ moment, what exactly is the horse meant to be learning? Go? Stop? Jump? Don’t jump? From the horse’s point of view, being spanked, then kicked hard, then pulled up sharply doesn’t make any sense. It doesn’t achieve anything except making the rider look bad. He is clearly frustrated, and has lost his temper. In the age of the internet, stuff like that doesn’t go away. Better to accept it as a bad day at the office, and go work on it at home.

[Alterrain]

No, just no. :no:

The correct reprimand for that disobedience (which, from my view, looked to be rider mistake to begin with) should have been ONE whack and a gruff NO! at the same time, and then allow the horse to canter away from the aid. If the horse was too strong after the punishment to continue safely, then the rider should have tipped his cap and gone home, and back to basics. This horse IMO looks like it could use a LOT of flatwork, needs to carry more impulsion and be able to shorten the stride faster.

I see so many riders go too slow bc the horse “gets strong” or “runs away”, a mess when the jumps get this high.

[Alterrain]

Forgot to add: I agree he should have been Eliminated when he stopped and backed up? Doesn’t that count as a second refusal?

[dog_amp_horsemom]

shocked! Thanks for posting.

[Rescuer]

@yellowbritches;8504366

While the smacks were harsh (no reason to raise your hand above your head to get it done), I didn’t mind the correction. The horse stopped (and, yeah, I saw it coming, too, but whatever). I DID mind the very harsh over correction when the horse leapt forward after that big forward aid (smack with a stick). The horse responded to the correction correctly; he went forward. And while it was overly forward and a little wild, a cooler headed rider would have allowed it for a step or two then quietly and coolly composed the horse.

Bolding is mine. This was my reaction and thought after watching as well. Who cares how old the video is. I think no matter what it can be a good exercise to watch video (both good ones and bad ones) and discuss what worked well and what didn’t and try and learn from that to apply to my own riding.

I am by no means a professional. But to me this did not look like a “come to jesus” moment as some people have stated - it looked like pure rider frustration and he was fighting with that horse from the moment they started. This looked like a rider who took a poorly prepared horse into the ring when they never should have been there. The whole time his half halts to try and gain some collection and control were massively obvious and while it was clear he was trying to put the horse back together - to me (again not a professional but this is what I perceived) it looked like this horse did not have the physical capacity to go around as collected as needed.

He looks to have a naturally big rangy stride. I can see how that would be difficult to put together. And of course I don’t know this horse or what training or issues he’s had, but, if it IS the case that he hasn’t had proper homework done to build the muscles in the right places to allow himself to collect properly - then really what can his rider expect?

[Sansena]

I stopped watching after the first stop, if there was more than one, I dunno.

What I saw was someone who took the fuel out of the horse on nearly every approach… did he move up to any distances later on in the ride? I couldn’t watch.

Agreed. No impulsion, horse had no choice to stop. Correction was a little un-called for.