Okay I have to agree that it is very odd that a thread on Diva appeared on the subject right around now…
1:51 mark. Inexcusable. Sorry. Don’t consider this a witchhunt.
[QUOTE=Sansena;8505632]
I stopped watching after the first stop, if there was more than one, I dunno.
What I saw was someone who took the fuel out of the horse on nearly every approach… did he move up to any distances later on in the ride? I couldn’t watch.
Agreed. No impulsion, horse had no choice to stop. Correction was a little un-called for.[/QUOTE]
This was my impression also.
To me the main issues is that this horse looks way too green for a 1.40m class. I have been pretty removed from the horse show world since having kids so I don’t know this horse and whether he was just wild due to weather or whatever, but he looked like a horse coming unglued because he was over his head and a rider that has a temper and a lack of sophistication dealing with a green/fresh horse…at least in that glimpse of time.
[QUOTE=nccatnip;8504596]
And that makes you some sort of an expert at something?
Don’t know the rider nor the horse, so I will repeat. No evil plot. Maybe if you read that very, very slowly it might sink in.
I truly find it interesting at how many posters will find that sort of riding acceptable. And how many don’t.[/QUOTE]
lol don’t know the rider? Really now. Just a completely random 3 year old video…
Righto.
I don’t understand the evil plot scenario. I’m not familiar with Diva - is it Horseshow Diva? I’m asking, not arguing. What, historically, would be a situation that would make this one suspicious?
Yes, Horse Show Diva. They just seem to always be putting rider’s kids down/talking trash and spreading it around. I’m not saying Mr. Prudent is being a particularly good rider in the video, nor is he handling his temper or his horse very well, just pointing out the curiosity that a random three year old video should pop up here on the same day EXACTLY one minute after it pops up on Diva!!!
Someone please tell me if its okay to put up this link, I’ll remove it if its not.
http://www.horseshowdiva.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3729&sid=01c8e84aec383c3a0d72529f730a1d20
[QUOTE=AmmyByNature;8504477]
It looked to me like a pro addressing issues for an ammy or junior client. Like an adult getting on a naught pony to muscle some sense into it.
Were there parts of it I found not tactful? Yes. There were parts that we very aggressive. But there were also moments that I thought were very clever by the rider.
rse doesn’t have an issue that only arises in the show ring that had come to a head and needed to be addressed.
Just maybe lets not judge this ride without knowing the back story.[/QUOTE]
Except that a show setting, in a public venue, in the days where everyone has a smartphone and can video your overly aggressive riding and post it to social media in a flash, is not the appropriate time or place to school your horse. If the professional really needs a “come to Jesus meeting” with this horse, go in the ring, get it jumping a few fences quietly and then excuse yourself. This guy when into the ring looking like he had an axe to grind with the horse.
Bit, hackamore, whatever is neither here nor there for me. If this is how this guy rides his horses when he’s on display for people, I hate to see what goes on at home in private. :no:
So agree - my respect for his mom has gone - and watched her in the 70s with Chase the Clouds. Was one of my idols - not anymore regardless of when this was made or under what context- no excuse for this behavior ever in the show ring and would tolerate just a portion of it in the schooling ring.
Without exception the riders I know who are comfortable sawing on a mouth in warm up, using excessive crop at a refusal in the ring, etc. are 10x worse at home.
Of course I can’t prove that this is always the case but I always pause when I see unnecessary roughness in public. Personally, I have never seen a normally kind/calm rider randomly go rouge at a show and start using harsh or abusive techniques for the first time.
[QUOTE=nccatnip;8504556]
No evil plot to burn down someones house or burn them at the stake. Just a video of poor Horsemanship to spark dialogue. Age of the video is not an excuse.[/QUOTE]
Just a video of awful riding so CoTH can shit on him.
FWIW, there’s another video of this pair from the same week at WEF that is much better. Horse is much more in front of the leg, leaning less on the hand, and generally more rideable. Rider is keeping emotions in check and being effective, they go around nicely albeit with a couple rails. Horse still looks like a tough ride though.
Regardless of what is in this video, and regardless of whatever one’s opinion is on this, the fact of this fairly dusty video popping up here AND on the Horse Show Diva site at the same time is suspicious.
[QUOTE=Sunflower;8506038]
Regardless of what is in this video, and regardless of whatever one’s opinion is on this, the fact of this fairly dusty video popping up here AND on the Horse Show Diva site at the same time is suspicious.[/QUOTE]
It’s pretty safe to assume the OP is the same person as the OP on horse show diva. Not suspicious, just obvious.
[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8506057]
It’s pretty safe to assume the OP is the same person as the OP on horse show diva. Not suspicious, just obvious.[/QUOTE]
Ummmmm, actually no. The link was posted on a FB page I am on, hadn’t even seen the diva post until it was mentioned here but whatever. Regardless of where it is posted, it still is crappy horsemanship.
[QUOTE=Ponytoes;8505890]
So agree - my respect for his mom has gone - and watched her in the 70s with Chase the Clouds. Was one of my idols - not anymore regardless of when this was made or under what context- no excuse for this behavior ever in the show ring and would tolerate just a portion of it in the schooling ring.[/QUOTE]
Leslie rode Chase the Clouds not Katie.
[QUOTE=Ponytoes;8505890]
So agree - my respect for his mom has gone - and watched her in the 70s with Chase the Clouds. Was one of my idols - not anymore regardless of when this was made or under what context- no excuse for this behavior ever in the show ring and would tolerate just a portion of it in the schooling ring.[/QUOTE]
It’s not her riding. And there’s no way to say she sanctioned/condoned this. If he lost his temper it’s regrettable but hardly in anyone else’s control but his own. What did you want her to do, run screaming into the ring mid-round demanding that he stop, holding a sign that says “I don’t agree with this riding?” Even the best riders have bad days and it seems a little extreme to judge someone else by the way their child rode in one video. I really doubt anyone is proud of that round.
The thing that jumps out at me in these videos is that the poor horse seems so lacking in basics. He looks confused and just plain “unbroke”. Then he is severely punished for not knowing what he doesn’t know. Just poor horsemanship all around, IMO.
Some people are ridiculous. He got that freight train of a horse around a 1.4m course, that he was clearly using to school it. He was not riding backwards to the jumps, you can’t at 1.4 m and get over the jumps. That horse was trying to run at the jumps and he wasn’t letting it. The horse stopped because it tried to run at the fence, he intervened at they hit the fence at the half stride so of course we all saw that coming but it well deserved the smack, as much for its failure to listen as for anything. Maybe one or two harder than it needed to be but that big lug of a horse appears half dead to the aids so perhaps he needs to go big to make an impression.
Sometimes all the flatwork in the world doesn’t help you when you have a horse that forgets it when the buzzer goes off and you need to go in and have an ugly round or two so you can have prettier ones later.
Or maybe you just pay your pros to have the ugly rides for you, so you get to just have all pretty ones. I don’t know. I’ve never been that lucky. Looks like this guy drew the short straw here. No one enjoys having to go in and do this kind of ride but someone’s got to fix 'em when they are broken. No one is proud of it but some days “get it done” is the best thing you can do. Definitely a good decision to halt and get it back before the last line.
Glad I didn’t have to ride it, doesn’t look fun at all. Those of you saying you’d take it, well, hope you enjoy having your arm sockets ripped out – or getting pulled past the distance under the base and getting stops if you sit nice and quiet like you wanted this guy to do. Neither options sounds like a walk in the park to me. BTDT, he can keep it.
Grey area:
when is it ok ethically and morally to put up videos that you didn’t personally take, with another rider?
when it is ok to analyze someone else’s’ riding on a public board like this?
[I]when they are at a public show?
when they give consent?[/I]
when does an oppritunity to discuss training become just plain nasty?
(ie- if my horse did XYZ, I’d do this as a response, not "oh my god, terrible rider, mayday, mayday… what an awful person, etc etc)
I’m not going to disagree or agree with these comments or the rider, but geez…cool it people. I see a lot of bad riding too, unless I can do something directly I let it go. Not my horse, not worth getting all riled up about. Sure, it’s sad, precisely why I didn’t WATCH THIS myself. I don’t want negative in my life.
Do people just need this much moderation since they can’t be nice? wow.
