THE RIDER. and just to throw this “theory” out there since he is so closely connected to such a high level rider perhaps someone just tossed him on the horse just because of his ‘blood lines’ totally disregarding his schedule/safety/everything except his last name. nuf.said.
Interesting concept… Every time I miss-hammer a nail or have to hire a plumber do people feel the need to mention how good my dad is at home repair?
I certainly hope not.
[QUOTE=nu2u;8506847]
THE RIDER. and just to throw this “theory” out there since he is so closely connected to such a high level rider perhaps someone just tossed him on the horse just because of his ‘blood lines’ totally disregarding his schedule/safety/everything except his last name. nuf.said.[/QUOTE]
The horse was owned at the time by Plain Bay Sales - the Prudent’s business. And only ever shown by Adam Prudent. So, seems like no ignorant customer just “tossed him on the horse” because of his last name.
It is really not that hard to check the validity of your theories. This kind of info is readily available.
I see three options for things like this.
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there is discussing the ride as a training piece–not that i think its cool to even put up videos in this place-- but anyways–I see this, and this is what I would do if this was my horse/when my horse did this or that…
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then we have the “OMG” posts- oh my god, that is such an abusive ride, he should not be allowed on the horse…
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then the third option- to make assumptions about the business/family because of ONE clip.
To me there is value only in the first one, otherwise it’s just hearsay and emotion. If it’s true abuse, you weren’t there to report it anyways, and it’s old news.
My point was that there seem to be a lot of crazy conspiracy theories and assumptions about this video. Thank you for the facts that scratch my totally off the cuff theory off the list (although he still may not have wanted this ride, or maybe even to be in the family business, only he knows)…Sunflower now maybe the way longtime put it will help you understand why mentioning his mother is relevant.
No. Still no idea why his mother is relevant. Again-- relevant to what?
The post you refer to suggest the lack of relevancy.
The sort of inexplicable posting of the video here reminds me of the random witch hunts that happen on the “animal welfare” fb pages like BTA, et al. Some of those people will literally scour the internet for a riding video (or sometimes just a photo! :eek:) that offends them, then post it with an inflammatory title and some sort of “oh the humanity!!!1!!!” hand wringing. The videos are often a few years old and sort of irrelevant, but everybody gets incredibly worked up and some of the more motivated members will start emailing the riders, the trainers, the clients, USEF, the FEI, and so on. It drives me nuts.
If I was planning on sending a horse to this rider, and saw this video, I would do more research. Strike that. I’m not that open minded. Sometimes that’s true. I admit, this being the first I’ve ever heard of this person, I made black and white statements, in this thread, about him.
If it wasn’t the first exposure to him, I might be more open minded. If I knew someone who knew him, or had seen him ride, or if three videos showing exquisite riding were linked, maybe I’d withhold judgement.
The second video of this rider that was linked in this thread, to me, looked like a rider a million times more skilled than I, but not nearly as skilled as a lot of GP riders I see.
I’m still such a dork about not understanding this stuff about dredging up from the past. Someone referenced maybe there was a sale that fell through, which finally shed a little light on why someone might be digging up something like this with evil intentions.
SendenHorse, I know you’ve been burned in the past about videos of your own riding. Why are you so opposed to videos of high level riders, in the public eye, being discussed? Because you seem opposed to them across the board, not just the way some people discuss them? “not that i think its cool to even put up videos in this place” What if it was a video that was making us all unanimously exclaim in delight?
Any horseshow that you or I go to, our riding is likely to stay private. If someone videoed me riding and posting it on YouTube, it would be unauthorized and totally uncool. But pros riding at the GP level, be it dressage or jumping, are a different category. They know there are television cameras trained on them.
So, how did your 20 something children represent you? Unicorns and butterflies 100% of the time? Particularly when thrown into the family business? You think it forever tarnishes your reputation if they make a few iffy decisions, perhaps (or probably) ignoring your advice? So say some on here.
The other thing is this is a business and if they don’t produce at the elite level, it impacts their income. It’s not fun. The client they tailor their business to is not in it to have fun, the pressure that puts on the senior trainers let along a young one expected to follow in the family footsteps all the way to the top is hard to imagine.
Id cut this kid some slack and not forever shun his mother and trash him in cyberspace. That may be a sale horse but who knows where they got it and who did what with it. Maybe what we see beats running thru the fences, who knows.
Just learned not to be too quick to judge quite some time ago.
I specifically said I was not passing any judgement because I did not know anywhere near all the facts and like you see this video as a microscopic sample of mountain…my point was that it was relevant that others mentioned (I did not bring her up, hold her responsible or assume how she felt about this ride) his mother because she is in the same profession
What is relevant about his mother being in the same profession? This still begs the question.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8506879]
I see three options for things like this.
-
there is discussing the ride as a training piece–not that i think its cool to even put up videos in this place-- but anyways–I see this, and this is what I would do if this was my horse/when my horse did this or that…
-
then we have the “OMG” posts- oh my god, that is such an abusive ride, he should not be allowed on the horse…
-
then the third option- to make assumptions about the business/family because of ONE clip.
To me there is value only in the first one, otherwise it’s just hearsay and emotion. If it’s true abuse, you weren’t there to report it anyways, and it’s old news.[/QUOTE]
I think there’s option 4. The not a terribly good ride, that’s a pro? option.
Thank you, Belmont. Your posts have been perhaps the first sane comments to the righteous “anger has no place on a horse” drivel that gets posted on these forums.
I always wonder about the lecturing individual who makes those statements. Always makes me wonder just who they are shaking their finger at…
Of course, riders should not get angry at their horses. And parents should never be angry at their children. And every golf advertisement is based on clubs being thrown into the water. So, there!
Watched the video. Just one comment: you can’t pull up a horse while leaning behind the vertical. It’s clashing aids. That is so unfair to the horse.
In those moments, the rider is just punishing, and not helping the horse learn how to go around a course. Maybe THAT should be the discussion of this thread.
[QUOTE=Cathbad;8507714]
Watched the video. Just one comment: you can’t pull up a horse while leaning behind the vertical. It’s clashing aids. That is so unfair to the horse.
In those moments, the rider is just punishing, and not helping the horse learn how to go around a course. Maybe THAT should be the discussion of this thread.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, disagree you can’t pull up a horse sitting behind the vertical, was taught that’s an appropriate place to be if getting dragged around, run off with, feeling the horse is going to stop/spin out or any other rude horse stunt that requires self preservation. If you aren’t behind it, you are headfirst in the fence.
I get the impression this horse has already been taught how to get around a course elsewhere if it got to this level and needs to unlearn what it was taught. It’s no tender young Greenie in its first rodeo.
Again, not awarding any prizes for the rider but that horse looks like one tough ride and spoiled on top of that.
The behind-the-vertical-while-stopping thing was the only part of this I felt might warrant discussion.
The back seat is definitely the place to be if riding defensively, but behind-the-vertical also turns your seat into a driving aid. Hence it’s use when trying to get a spooky horse over a spooky fence.
See too many leaning back for downward transitions when instead they should be tightening their core and stretching up, not back.
Consider dressage, behind-the-vertical is observed most in the extensions, not the collections. Leaning back tilts the pelvis, sends the seat bones into the saddle, and encourages the horse to drop and engage his hindquarters. And leaning waaay back is used to chase the balky horse forward.
Given that, I also found the rider’s back nearly parallel to that of the horse’s while trying to accomplish a downward transition to be terribly conflicting.
[QUOTE=Sunflower;8507669]
What is relevant about his mother being in the same profession? This still begs the question.[/QUOTE]
I think people mention his mother because although she was a great rider she could also lose her temper and punish the horse (yanking and kicking at the same time) at the end of the course on the way out of the ring. I’ve seen it with my own eyes before the days of youtube, facebook and the like
well, let’s look at the cause and effect pointed out. The “the aids are conflicting and therefore it doesn’t teach the horse anything.” we have the proof here…this video, and the video a few days later where the horse looks a lot better and has a pretty nice round. So – looks to me very much like the horse did learn something from this schooling round, and the statements that it is impossible for the horse to learn anything from the supposed conflicting aids, driving seat etc. are mistaken.
But who wants to consider that when we could be all judgey about a rider’s round on a difficult horse three years ago, who didn’t ask for it and who we don’t even know? That’s a lot more fun, right?
[QUOTE=m&m;8506918]
If I was planning on sending a horse to this rider, and saw this video, I would do more research. Strike that. I’m not that open minded. Sometimes that’s true. I admit, this being the first I’ve ever heard of this person, I made black and white statements, in this thread, about him.
If it wasn’t the first exposure to him, I might be more open minded. If I knew someone who knew him, or had seen him ride, or if three videos showing exquisite riding were linked, maybe I’d withhold judgement.
The second video of this rider that was linked in this thread, to me, looked like a rider a million times more skilled than I, but not nearly as skilled as a lot of GP riders I see.
I’m still such a dork about not understanding this stuff about dredging up from the past. Someone referenced maybe there was a sale that fell through, which finally shed a little light on why someone might be digging up something like this with evil intentions.
SendenHorse, I know you’ve been burned in the past about videos of your own riding. Why are you so opposed to videos of high level riders, in the public eye, being discussed? Because you seem opposed to them across the board, not just the way some people discuss them? “not that i think its cool to even put up videos in this place” What if it was a video that was making us all unanimously exclaim in delight?
Any horseshow that you or I go to, our riding is likely to stay private. If someone videoed me riding and posting it on YouTube, it would be unauthorized and totally uncool. But pros riding at the GP level, be it dressage or jumping, are a different category. They know there are television cameras trained on them.[/QUOTE]
Technology sharing really is a grey area, but if you don’t push the button to share whatever it is, it’s never going to be a bad thing.
I just think the golden rule applies “do unto others as you would have them do to you”. People get too nasty and can’t keep it constructive.
Also, many forums have rules about this, so it’s not just me. I also don’t think people should post show videos of pro riders on public sites, save it for your own use, even then ask first when you can. Be respectful just as you would want someone to be for your riding.
Sure cameras are on the professionals at a show- TV cameras! Footage is owned by a company and broadcast at a specific location- not a free for all that seems to be the case with iPhones or youtube.
I get being upset at these rides, I do. It makes me sad. But there is nothing to gain from all of us getting riled up. It makes no real change.
Who owns the content? what does the subject of the video get to say about how it’s used, if anything? In my profession I’d probably be taken to court if I acted as liberally with my footage as people do on here. I can’t just take it and do whatever- the subjects are assured at time of filing how it can be used, stored, and treated. They are professionals, too, in their field.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8508116]
…this video, and the video a few days later where the horse looks a lot better and has a pretty nice round. So – looks to me very much like the horse did learn something from this schooling round, and the statements that it is impossible for the horse to learn anything from the supposed conflicting aids, driving seat etc. are mistaken.[/QUOTE]
Did I miss a second video of same rider/same horse? I thought the other video was same rider/different horse.
