Argument with Farmer: WWYD situation

[StormyDay]

Giving another update;

The grass did not die, so I’m 99% sure it was just 2,4D. I can’t imagine anyone who has been farming for decades would be stupid enough to spray fertilizer when it was going to rain and wash it all away, though he never said exactly what he sprayed.

The extension office said they couldn’t test for what he sprayed, it had been too long and also there’s too many things to try to test for.

The farmer never called me back about my offer of haying the bottom of the property so I am assuming he is not interested. I’m going to give him a few more days and then send him a letter stating that since he didn’t get back to me, the property will not be hayed in the future by him.

The fencing was delayed because we got snow?!? Which is super weird for this time of year. My daffodils were so sad. Hopefully next week it’s getting put up.

That is all. Nothing too exciting since my last update. I’m just glad my grass didn’t all die.

[SuzieQNutter]

The other side of the world but we want rain asap after fertilising so as it doesn’t burn.

[McGurk]

That makes sense on completely flat land. On land with any kind of slope, grade or hill, a moderate or heavy rain shortly after the fertilizer is applied means that the fertilizer washes downhill. It also means that the fertilizer ends up in the nearest watershed, which is a bigger problem that just losing the fertilizer on your field.

[2DogsFarm]

I don’t know what kind of climate you have, but haying anywhere is completely dependent on weather for every stage of the process.
Hay may be ready to cut, but if the ground isn’t dry enough to support the tractor & machinery it waits.
Hay cut needs at least 1 hot dry day to dry sufficiently to bale. If a forecast threatens surprise rain it’s a crapshoot: either bale early or hope rained-on rows get some dry days before baling. Then the bales need to get on a wagon & out of weather.
I’ve helped my hayguy neighbors more than once by driving a truck while they buck bales onto the wagon to beat incoming rain.

[goodhors]

Fertilizing could be either spray or granular form. You do not want rain after spraying fertilizer on plants that have not had a chance to absorb it.

With granular fertilizer, you want rain right after spreading so it gets into the soil. Most folks use Urea as their Nitrogen source. Urea will turn to vapor if not “rained in” very quickly, so it is wasted money, not a useful help. Ammonium Sulfate is a better choice for hay Nitrogen, since there is no possible chance of Urea Poisoning to the animals. The Ammonium Sulphate does not vaporize, another benefit, should the rain miss you for a couple days. You get all the Nitrogen benefit from it. Granular is not wasted, does not wash off pastures and hayfields with good plant cover that does not allow fast rain run off.

I try to time my fertilizing with granular form, just before rain is expected. Fertilizer can get to work right away, sinking into the soil after getting wet.

[eightpondfarm]

we’ve been haying this farm for 20 years, plus, i’m not stupid.

@2DogsFarm

I don’t know what kind of climate you have, but haying anywhere is completely dependent on weather for every stage of the process.
Hay may be ready to cut, but if the ground isn’t dry enough to support the tractor & machinery it waits.
Hay cut needs at least 1 hot dry day to dry sufficiently to bale. If a forecast threatens surprise rain it’s a crapshoot: either bale early or hope rained-on rows get some dry days before baling. Then the bales need to get on a wagon & out of weather.

[Ghazzu]

I was talking about this sort of problem some time back with a guy who had been haying for other folks and had given it up.
He said one of the main problems was weather, and the second was the need to move equipment.
He said that when conditions were optimum, people who have both their own fields to hay and also others’ tend to get their own done first, and then do the “contract” fields.
Given the vagaries of New England weather, that often resulted in hay cut late and hay baled too soon on the latter.

[2DogsFarm]

Apologies.
I in no way intended to imply you are stupid.
But so many who only buy hay are unaware of how complex producing it for sale can be.

[eightpondfarm]

There are enough guys around here with equipment that they use on their own fields that it’s pretty easy to find someone who wants to pick up a few extra bucks doing roundbales for someone nearby. All they guys i’ve ever used have their tractors and equip within easy tractor driving distance. They almost always start out pretty conscientious and regress into taking advantage. Which is when i move along to someone new. I’ve planted my fields according to the schedule of this guy i have now who doesn’t get to us until Mid July early AUGUST!! We are the last farm he does before his own fields.
What works for me is little bluestem and korean lespediza. Both of which are hitting their most valuable nutrition levels when this guy gets to us. What i want out of him is to not rush the drying process. At that time of the year there is very little rain, but he wants to get in and get out an my hay takes longer to dry than he wants to allow. I’m about ready to find someone new…again.

[2DogsFarm]

Climate is a tyrant.
2(3?)yrs ago we had a drought that left hayfields unready to cut until July.
I was sweating bullets, as I usually have my year’s worth stacked in the barn by then.
Last year was better, but my hayguy neighbors only got 2 cuttings off my mini-field (4ac when combined with land of another neighbor to my North).
Same with most of the other fields they lease, few 3rd cuttings.

[millerra]

I didn’t read the replies - just relating a story about my father in law (retired) and his renter. His renter, a farmer who has a farmstead w/in the the farmland, planted trees (windbreak, line of trees) 15 feet into the rented field. “oh no, so sorry they are on the wrong side of the line. What ever could be done??”

The solution: the renter moved all the trees.

We are renting out a field to our neighbor in exchange for some hay. The hay is always crappy (for cows) so we, based on market value, were giving him a very sweet deal. DH says - hey, can I try a couple of corn stock bales for my fat cows. Farmer says sure, no problem. help yourself to a couple - so we do. Next time the topic of rent and hay comes up, farmer goes on a rant about inflation, blah blah blah. So DH says, ok - this year we better go back to cash rent so there is no miscommunication. Farmer doesn’t talk to us for over a week and then grudgingly oks the deal - knowing he just screwed up his own deal.

That farmer saw the flags; he knew what he was doing. Believe it or not - the farmers (working and retired) have no problem playing hard [HARD] ball w/ each other. My advice is to stand your ground (I’m sure you already got great advice, good luck)

[eightpondfarm]

@millerra

His renter, a farmer who has a farmstead w/in the the farmland, planted trees (windbreak, line of trees) 15 feet into the rented field. “oh no, so sorry they are on the wrong side of the line. What ever could be done??”

As i was planting my windbreak a couple of years ago, my neighbor came racing over in his ATV and wanted to know what i was planting and why. Without escalating i told him i was planting a windbreak (which he couldn’t deny was a prudent thing to do on that 50 acre field, and what trees were comprising the windbreak…at that point it was only one line Loblolly, pitch loblolly and eastern red cedar have a second row of cedars and a few Norfolk. pines to replace dead loblollies). I planted them 10 feet inside (our side) of the fence …plus another 2 feet for good measure. I told him to please not hit them with herbicide…and showed him where i had placed a camera toward the fenceline. Some of the trees are about 4’ tall as of right now and i’m expecting a couple more feet this summer. In about 4 or 5 years he will no longer have a ‘long view’ from his living room and front porch. He will only be able to see his little cow pasture and not well into our farm.

[StormyDay]

This reminds me of when I was house shopping. It seemed like every agent would tell me ‘look at the beautiful view’ when gesturing to someone else property. I’d say, yeah, but I don’t own that part. And they would say something like ‘I know, you don’t even need to take care of it! How wonderful!’

And I’d have to explain how basing my purchasing decision off of a view of someone else’s property in a county that’s having a severe housing crisis and farms left and right are being turned into McMansions isn’t a wise choice.

I chose a property with a view of a mountain. They can’t tear down the mountain.

[BrendaJane]

don’t dare them…

[eightpondfarm]

EggZACTly!
https://archive.kftc.org/what-mountaintop-removal-coal-mining#:~:text=More%20than%20500%20Appalachian%20mountains,or%20severly%20degraded%20exceeds%201%2C400.

[StormyDay]

@BrendaJane @eightpondfarm I’m safe from this because the military owns it and the president/congress go there to hide if there’s a safety emergency, and it’s a national park. But otherwise, I’d be concerned they would cover it with condos!

[candyappy]

@StormyDay

I could leave the bottom part of the field to be hayed, probably about 4 acres, but I have no idea if that would be a worthwhile amount to come and get hay off of. We get 3-4 cuttings a year here. How much hay do you think he would get from 4 acres?

4 acres would be worth it for him to cut ( 3 times) if he is your neighbor. I would split the cost of fertilizer/ spray since he damaged the field and the things needed by your fencing guys, which they will have to do again and you will most likely be billed for the extra time to redo it?

Talking it out in person may be uncomfortable but hopefully it will clear up any misunderstandings and get things off to a better start and a good relationship into the future.

I imagine with the projected cost of hay he figures the more hay he can sell the better.