Argument with Farmer: WWYD situation

[StormyDay]

Long post alert.

Last fall we purchased an 11 acre property with a house and a barn. The owners who had built the house and barn were older and had some health issues, and hadn’t had horses for years, so they had signed a contract with a local hay farmer to pay them $500 a year in exchange for haying the property. The farmer had to take care of all maintenance. Last spring the owners (Owner A) had to quickly sell their home and sold it to a neighbor (Owner B) for way under market value. The property was ‘as is’. The neighbor then did some upgrades and necessary repairs and sold it to us.
When Owner A sold to Owner B, the contract for haying the property expired as it was not transferred. Hay farmer kept coming all summer and haying anyways, and no one said anything to him. He did know the property had sold.

Owner B sells to us. Again, no contract for haying the field, nothing written down. We assume that contract has expired and Owner A or B has told him to not come anymore, or contact us about renewing it. He never comes.
In the mean time, I purchase hay from him (he’s not my hay dealer, but my person ran out) and I tell him I’ve purchased the property and I have horses. He says oh, that’s ok, it had been in hay for 10+ years and he was actually going to tell the previous owners they were either going to need to do corn for a few seasons or stop the lease anyways because the crabgrass was getting to thick.

I go about my business because I don’t have a contract with him, he knows my intentions to bring my horses home, and he even said he was pretty much done with the field. I have contractors come out who dig soil samples for the arena, stake out the arena perimeter, put out flags for utilities, stake out and use string for my upcoming fence installation, etc. It’s finally warmed up enough here to do construction so it’s full steam ahead right now. I’ve got spray paint and flags and sticks all over that pasture.

Well, this morning he came at O clock early to fertilize and spray herbicide on the field. He drove over and broke a bunch of the flags and sticks, plus because we had heavy rains yesterday tore up some spots pretty good. I didn’t catch him because he was finished before 8 AM.

We called him and now he is angry because he just sprayed 1k worth of fertilizer and herbicide on our field. He’s pissed, and wants compensation, or to get to hay the field as usual this season. (I can’t delay the construction; I’ve signed contracts and the work is happening. In 2 days the first of my fence is supposed to go up)

I’m not particularly happy, because those contractors are going to have to redo all of their measurements again since the flags are everywhere now, and he tore up part of the pasture with the tires.

I’m just not sure what to do. I do understand his side of it; it’s money he just poured down the drain. But I also don’t understand why he would think that it was ok to come spray a field that he has no contract with and is clearly in the middle of construction.

Thoughts?

[trubandloki]

This is the type of situation that will probably not end well no matter what you do.

The best answer is probably to hire a lawyer and have them send him a letter that he has no rights to this land and that is not allowed on the property anymore.

[2DogsFarm]

I’m going to do a lot of supposing, OP, so please correct me where I’m wrong.

How much of the 11ac were in hay?
How much of this was flagged for other use?
You’ll need hay & if you bought from this guy, apparently it was decent hay.
Did you pay less as it was on your field, so less handling involved?
Could you leave some of the former field in hay & contract to farmer?

For myself, with a mere 5ac that contains house, lawns, 36X36 barn w/attached 60X120 indoor & pastures (totalling ~3ac), I have neighbors who hay an L- shaped area of my acreage.
They get 120-150 small squares off it, I get acreage that looks civilized & a bargain basement price for hay.
My hay usually not from my field, I use 300 bales a year. They sell the hay & get mine from other fields they lease.
I don’t charge for haying my field.
Also allow them to store loaded wagons in my indoor for no charge.

[SuzieQNutter]

I agree with above. In the lawyer letter you could probably add the cost of remeasuring, reflagging and repairing the torn up ground in time to do the construction in 2 days like you wanted. Yes money down the drain for him, but he can probably claim it as a loss in his tax. At least we could over here.

Is it possible for him to hay around your arena, with an agreed buffer, staying away from the construction as a once off compromise.

After that if you want to continue a contract with him, you get some of the hay for free or he gives you so many dollars per bales he makes. That is what happens over here.

[BrendaJane]

bring him a bottle of hootch, tell him he did about 1k damages to the field, but you are willing to call it even. thank him for fertilizing the field, and ask him for his card for future hay purchases.

he has no leg to stand on, probably thinks he can bully the little lady?

[jherold]

I’d apologize for the misunderstanding and pay him the $1000. You got your pasture fertilized. $1000 was probably just the cost of the chemicals alone. You may need something from this farmer later on. Farmers are handy friends to have. I certainly wouldn’t go all lawyer on him for $1000

[moonlitoaksranch]

This is the best answer. It sucks, but neighbors are worth more than flags. Invite him over for dinner or something and sit own and talk it out calmly. Offer to pay for the fertilizer.

[MunchingonHay]

Split the cost of the fertilizer with him.

He still came on to your property without a contract so I am not team full cost of the fertilizer, but you will get some great grass this year because of it. but I can also see how paying the full cost of the chemicals is the right thing to do, since you may have to purchase hay from him in the future.

He should have asked to hay the field.

AND the fact that I am sure he saw those flags regardless of how early it was (tractors have lights). He was aware of what he was doing. … I am a bit bent on this. I would have to grit my teeth when I hand over the $1k.

[StormyDay]

@2DogsFarm

I’m going to do a lot of supposing, OP, so please correct me where I’m wrong.

How much of the 11ac were in hay?
How much of this was flagged for other use?
You’ll need hay & if you bought from this guy, apparently it was decent hay.
Did you pay less as it was on your field, so less handling involved?
Could you leave some of the former field in hay & contract to farmer?

For myself, with a mere 5ac that contains house, lawns, 36X36 barn w/attached 60X120 indoor & pastures (totalling ~3ac), I have neighbors who hay an L- shaped area of my acreage.
They get 120-150 small squares off it, I get acreage that looks civilized & a bargain basement price for hay.
My hay usually not from my field, I use 300 bales a year. They sell the hay & get mine from other fields they lease.
I don’t charge for haying my field.
Also allow them to store loaded wagons in my indoor for no charge.

About 8 1/2 acres were in hay. I paid the same amount as everyone else for the hay, but I also didn’t own the property when he cut that hay.

I could leave the bottom part of the field to be hayed, probably about 4 acres, but I have no idea if that would be a worthwhile amount to come and get hay off of. We get 3-4 cuttings a year here. How much hay do you think he would get from 4 acres?

[StormyDay]

@trubandloki @SuzieQNutter ugh, I hate using lawyers. I may need to though. If he’s amenable to it he can do the bottom 4 acres, but I just don’t know if it’s even worthwhile for him to drive over here for.

@BrendaJane I’m afraid he’d throw the bottle at me

@jherold @moonlitoaksranch I just don’t know if I can justify paying 1k for something that I didn’t ask for, plus I really don’t know what he sprayed on the field. I can assume it’s not toxic, but at this point I don’t even know if he sprayed it to hay it or if he just sprayed grass killer and was going to put it in corn.

@MunchingonHay he’s have to be really dense in the head to not know that he shouldn’t have been spraying. He ran straight over a plastic 4ft tall stick in the ground that was being used to mark fencing, so yeah I agree he knew what he was doing. My dad also suggested offering to split the cost.

[TheJenners]

Depends on the hay and other factors, I get 400 bales on a single cut of fescue/orchard mix on about 4 to 4.5 acres. I get 300 smackeroos from it and dont have to mow it. I’m fencing some of this for a third one-acre paddock this spring and I’m not sure how to approach with my hay guy still.

[2DogsFarm]

I’d guess near 200+ small squares, judging by my property.
He might be interested, at least this year since he already fertilized.
Maybe offer to let him hay that much, take hay in payment & decide if that arrangement works for you both.
Might be the last time he works that field, but at least you part on friendlier terms.
Never know when a hayguy could come in handy

[NaturallyHappy]

I understand why other people are up in arms for you, but I REALLY agree w this post. I’d try real hard to figure out how to make friends w him. You don’t actually know what transposed w the other owners, and farmers are wonderful people to have on your side. They can do everything.

[luvmyhackney]

Make friends with him even if it cost you a grand. Small price to know someone with a big tractor and hay equipment.

[StormyDay]

I actually have a good friend who has all the equipment to hay; I was going to see if he would hay my lower field for me anyways. And I have another friend with a Construction company who also does pasture maintenance. So he’s not the only farmer I know. I still don’t really want to get into a big fight though. You don’t know when connections will come back to bite you in the ass…

[jherold]

The fertilizer for my 4 acre pasture cost $650 last year. That didn’t include the cost of application. $1000 for 11 acres sounds like a bargain…

[fourfillies]

If you intend to live here a long term Id grit my teeth and pay the money. I doubt he did it to be spiteful. He likely had a true misunderstanding. Although rolling over the stakes is annoying.

[wsmoak]

What is the best possible outcome? I mean, yay, your field is now sprayed and fertilized? (assuming you are not opposed to such things.). Can you afford to pay for the application or is this going to be a hardship?

No, you did not want this to happen but if you can see your way to some sort of compromise by feeling that you got some benefit out of the spraying and stop this from turning into a lifelong grievance in a small town then… $1000 might be worth it.

Yes, the contractors will have to re-measure and stake, but it won’t take as long as the first time. And the ruts in the field are fixable, quite possibly your own contractors will make more of a mess building a barn. (What kind of farmer drives on wet fields though??!)

I would just… try to make this into something that you laugh about next year, not something where you have to avoid running into the guy in the local hardware store for as long as you live there.

But be very clear that this will never happen again, and put it ALLLL in writing.

[BrendaJane]

well he said the field was not good anymore (did he not do maintenance on them earlier?)
he was trespassing and did damage to the surveyed field, causing the OP to fear delays for her construction.

this is not a bargain. She owns the land and he had no contract or expectation to be there.
And I would not necessarily offer him the bottom 4 either.

[mmeqcenter]

@StormyDay

I actually have a good friend who has all the equipment to hay; I was going to see if he would hay my lower field for me anyways. And I have another friend with a Construction company who also does pasture maintenance. So he’s not the only farmer I know. I still don’t really want to get into a big fight though. You don’t know when connections will come back to bite you in the ass…

I was going to say, how I’d approach the situation would depend on how much you expect to “need” a friendship with him. Assuming there’s plenty of other hay sources in your area in addition to your above stated friends, sounds like not much.

Therefore, I would decline to pay any bit of the $1000, and I would not offer to let him hay four acres. I wouldn’t get a lawyer just yet, though. I’d explain that based on the conversation where you told him you were putting horses on the property and he said it wasn’t good hay grass anymore anyway, you assumed that meant he knew he would not be haying the field anymore. That’s his error, not yours.

Frankly, even without that conversation, it’s ridiculous for him to have thought his haying contract would transfer from owner to owner to owner. Contracts have never worked that way.
Then there’s the fact that running over 4’ tall plastic posts and flags and strings that are obviously marking stuff isn’t an accident. Of course he knew what he was doing. At the bare minimum, when he saw the posts after trespassing on your property, he should have contacted you before doing a single dang thing to that field. Again, his error, not yours.