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Army horses' living conditions

Words fail me.

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:cry:

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Thanks for posting the story. It’s truly sad that the military has taken such little care (apparently) of the horses who pull the the caissons bearing the caskets to Arlington Cemetery.

The idea that one horse died because of having ingested pounds of gravel (!) and sand from the turnout conditions is appalling.

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I saw something on FB a while ago looking to see if anyone wanted to take in a retired Caisson horse. While I’m okay with the offer, the way it was worded suggested that the adopter could provide a better retirement for the horse than the military, which is very sad.

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Just asking…was this report written by someone who knows horses? Sometimes people who aren’t familiar with livestock and horses can be really appalled by how animals happily live. Case in point my friend who really believes I am a little bit mean because even tho I do put a blanket on my horse in the winter I leave her legs bare. true story. so just wondering who wrote the article about the army horses.

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I’m not terribly surprised. A few months back they were advertising to get rid of an otherwise healthy 15 YO horse that had EPM. They were not going to treat the disease, they were just going to pawn it off to be someone else’s problem. A lot of commenters pointed out that it’s a treatable disease and not even particularly difficult to treat, but as far as I know the horse was still given away.

And wow, 6 acres for 60 horses is not enough at all.

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they don’t exactly treat soldiers better either.

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The article did not provide information about rotation of time between Fort Myer and turnout at Fort Belvior. Do the horses work 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off?? They certainly are getting exercise/moving around while on caisson duty. 6 horses pull the caisson and if they do 4 funerals in one day will a team go out twice? If they do 8 funerals (cited in the article during busy times) how many teams are used? 3 teams is 18 horses. 4 teams would be 24 horses. Each team has a 7th horse, the riderless horse.

I found this: “The platoon is comprised of roughly 50 service men and women as well as approximately 60 horses. There are 4 riding teams. At any given time, two teams are actually riding, with each team conducting up to 4 full honor funerals per day, while the other two teams work in the stables and farrier caring for the horses, alternating every week. There are a total of five caissons in the fleet. Training for both the horses and the humans is intense.”

So at any point in time it reads like the main stable would have close to 35 horses on site- 5 caisson teams and 5 riderless horses. That puts up to 25 horses on the 6 acre pasture for down time which is 1/4 acre per horse. That is a low number but I think in places where land is expensive (entire DC metro, cities in CA, the northeast and so on) you will find 60 horses on small acreage in riding schools, show barns and boarding barns.

So yes, improve and expand the Fort Myer paddocks for horses working each day. The parasite problem can be fixed easily. The hay I bought last September is the absolute worst hay I’ve ever gotten. I have to check every.single bale for mold and won’t be using the vendor again. If someone has the govt contract to supply hay it means breaking the contract. Simple in private business. More steps in govt.

No one does bureaucracy like the military. With breathtaking speed they can insert a military force and supply it with everything they need to win the engagement. Likewise, Solider needing to get a paper signed can takes weeks due to it sitting on desk somewhere, etc. I totally understand how the constant change in leadership has helped drop the ball on getting the facilities improved.

Fort Riley in Kansas has a mounted troop and they routinely auction off or place the geldings being retired from duty. Those horses are snatched up because who doesn’t love a horse with a military background?

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Eh, I really can’t find an excuse for the small acreage. While land is expensive here it’s nowhere like California expensive. They shouldn’t be trying to pack that many horses onto a small property when they don’t need to. This wasn’t a problem that started yesterday; it’s something they have been not addressing for a long time.

However, I do understand the small turnout at Fort Meyer, as the horses are working a lot and that base is very small. My gripe is with Ft Belvoir

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Just commenting that the British cavalry keep 270 horses in stables in the centre of London with absolutely no turn out. They are exercised and worked several hours a day so there are no issues with stereotypical behavior, all get bodywork, feet, teeth etc and, being the army, are inspected frequently. They have a varied, interesting life, even more so if doing shows around the country. They are also rotated for regular vacations in the country when they are roughed off and turned out for a minimum two weeks, longer if thought necessary. The horses tend to be retired when in their late teens, early twenties, though again it depends on the animal and, in particular, their feet as they do so much road work. The soldiers looking after them often take the opportunity of their period with the horses (other parts of the regiment are mechanised) to do BHS qualifications.

Horses have been kept without turnout for centuries: it is the amount of work that matters. A horse ridden round in circles in an arena for an hour each day then put back into a stable: different problem. A groom in a private household in Victorian London was expected to exercise his charge for one or two hours daily before his employer ever rode the horse.

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Of course you’re right about the British cavalry, but my sense is that the situation with the caisson horses is somewhat different.

It sounds as though the horses are not getting the kind of treatment that the British cavalry might offer them, regardless of turnout.

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Agreed. I’d bet that you’d have a hard time finding (what was it 40lbs?? of) rocks and sand in the guts of a British cavalry horse.

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I read the article and yes, it was well-written. This is not about someone who doesn’t know horses freaking out because a horse has a fly mask on.

I think the outrage is not so much over the lack of turnout area, but how on earth a horse was able to ingest over 40lbs of gravel and sand. I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around that one.

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For me, the outrage was about turnout and living conditions in general, because that is the entire reason that horse had 44 pounds of sand and gravel in his gut. Overcrowding leads directly to high parasite loads and ingestion of sand and gravel. And putting horses in a pen with 18-20 inches of mud and excrement is unacceptable. I wonder how much the Army spends treating the hoof and skin problems that environment causes? And how are they compensating for the nutritionally deficient, moldy hay? The article didn’t say anything at all about the horses’ mental health. Horses can be pretty stoic, but I can’t imagine that they are happy in these conditions. The Army has had 18 unsatisfactory inspections in the last 3 years, and yet these problems persist.

I think the soldiers taking care of these horses are in an impossible situation. They seem to be doing the best they can, but they can’t overcome the indifference of people who could improve things. Congress would have to authorize funds to get this fixed, and the base commanders would have to follow through. How likely is that?

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As much as I hate to say so, it may be time to end the whole program. Yes it’s beautiful and moving for the funerals, but Arlington isn’t what it was years ago. It’s an extremely busy city with a lot of noise, a lot of pedestrians, and a lot that can go wrong, and there’s too many horses on too small of an area to be healthily provided for. When we take animals and put them into subpar conditions, we have to ask ourselves if it’s worth it. And I’m not sure it is here?

There’s been issues with the horses having meltdowns during services. I’m sure it’s a direct reflection of the conditions they are in. No turnout is hard on any horse, but now ask that horse to stay calm and collected around people, umbrellas, sirens, loud cars, joggers with strollers, loud music, etc. That would be a hard ask for some of the best cared for horses in the world, and these certainly aren’t them.

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Posted last week. Looks like a really interesting opportunity for someone in the area. I hope they find a great candidate.

https://www.usajobs.gov/job/653677900

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I wonder if this is a new position or just filling a vacancy. And whoever gets the job won’t be able to fix things unless Congress provides some money. If the new manager doesn’t have the resources to address the problems a more appropriate job title would be “Scapegoat.”

I really hope the new job posting reflects a real determination to improve the lives of those horses.

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well, a lot can probably be done with hands-on with what you have at the ready, like picking up manure.

I too wondered if it was a new position or a vacancy. The original article mentioned a civilian employee but didn’t interview that employee, or mention them again. I might assume that employee was/is an admin clerk that made sure vet bills were submitted on time or (and I hope this wasn’t the case) was hired into a position for which they weren’t qualified because the hiring authority didn’t know any better. Hopefully, now they know better. Whatever the case, in addition to the existing budget, I’d bet the new hire will have increased annual funding based on recent negative publicity. I’d bet also they’ll get additional funding for immediate upgrades and repairs. As a 28-year Army veteran, I know the Army can sometimes be slow to proactively address problems until they become bigger problems, especially if that problem is something most Army persons aren’t familiar with (for example, horses). The fact they’re looking for a new herd manager, rather than just axing the program, shows they made the decision to keep the Caissons. And in making that decision, they (presumably) will put more thought, effort, and funding into their upkeep, in addition to hiring permanent civilian staff who know how to manage horses.

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@BrendaJane they certainly have hands-on, in the form of an entire Army platoon to pick up the poo! :rofl: But I’m guessing that ironically, that was part of the problem. It’s easy to do immediate, visual things needed to make a facility look good, especially if you have a whole platoon - usually around 30 people - doing it, every day. I visited the Ft. Meyer facility several years ago. The main barn was quite nice and well kept up. Stalls were clean, horses brushed, and the tack room, with all the harness leather and brass organized “dress-right-dress” in its proper storage place, absolutely gleamed from care and attention. (I’d wanted to explore past the main barn but it was off-limits to visitors. Understandable, they don’t want random visitors wandering around their facility any more than I want strangers wandering around mine.) So, outwardly, it looked nice. But a “horse person” would have immediately seen the state of the paddocks, that horses ate hay thrown on gravel, and the innumerable other things that were probably going on, that those not familiar with horses just don’t see. So while the soldiers meant well, unless specifically directed to do so, I’m certain it just didn’t occur to them to not throw hay on gravel, and to pick up ALL the poop, inside AND out. If there is someone (the new hire, I hope), who tells the Caisson commander “hay will not be tossed on sand and gravel, and ALL the poop needs to be picked up, every day, inside and out”, and explain why, then that commander will make it so, starting right now. And the soldiers will comply. I’ve little doubt they weren’t being intentionally lazy, they just didn’t know, and an 8-week Army horse training program doesn’t teach them what they need to “see”. That comes with time and experience.

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