Arthritis on PPE in young horse

[sonestra]

Hello everyone,

I have been given the opportunity to purchase a lovely upper level dressage prospect for next to nothing, due to findings on x-ray. The horse is currently sound in light work (only due to age, not light work due to findings), but has significant changes to the lower hock (caudal part of the distal intertarsal) in which it appears to be fusing. Horse is only 3. One vet told me to run, and another other vet thought it wasn’t as bad as the first vet thought, that these things happen and can be largely inconsequential, and that I could be missing out on a great horse, since horse is sound (I’ve ridden many “sound” horses that have ended up having significant injuries and issues that they were internalizing, so not terribly soothed by that alone). Vet also seems to think once the horse fuses, the issue would be gone. The first vet however, said horse may never fuse and would be operating at some degree of pain indefinitely if that happens. Also, my understanding is that fusing isn’t a guarantee of future soundness. I also fear other joints or parts of the body becoming compromised in the process, as they compensate, which the first vet also mentioned.

I am more conservative, and look at this like we are already starting off the bat with issues which will only progress and as I can’t afford another horse, it’s a big risk for me considering my riding goals. However, I am already expecting any upper level horse to need maintenance one day (but don’t want to start with it!) and I know the same thing could happen to a horse that starts with clean x-rays. I am also the type of person who has allowed fears to keep me back from some really great opportunities in my life, so I am not a good judge of what’s reasonable or not. When I listen to myself I feel like I sound like someone who just doesn’t want to put money into my animals for maintenance, and I hate how it comes off to my ears, even though I know this isn’t at all the heart of the issue. I’m okay with accepting most horses don’t have perfect vettings, and I’ve bought horses with imperfect vettings in the past, but this one makes me more nervous due to my riding goals and the horse’s age. I’ve been told this issue could be a huge financial investment to manage and still end in heartbreak. Am I being reasonable? Too conservative? I could really use some dialogue about this, to help clear my head a bit. Thanks for reading!

[Bluey]

@sonestra

Hello everyone,

I have been given the opportunity to purchase a lovely upper level dressage prospect for next to nothing, due to findings on x-ray. The horse is currently sound in light work (only due to age, not light work due to findings), but has significant changes to the lower hock (caudal part of the distal intertarsal) in which it appears to be fusing. Horse is only 3. One vet told me to run, and another other vet thought it wasn’t as bad as the first vet thought, that these things happen and can be largely inconsequential, and that I could be missing out on a great horse, since horse is sound (I’ve ridden many “sound” horses that have ended up having significant injuries and issues that they were internalizing, so not terribly soothed by that alone). Vet also seems to think once the horse fuses, the issue would be gone. The first vet however, said horse may never fuse and would be operating at some degree of pain indefinitely if that happens. Also, my understanding is that fusing isn’t a guarantee of future soundness. I also fear other joints or parts of the body becoming compromised in the process, as they compensate, which the first vet also mentioned.

I am more conservative, and look at this like we are already starting off the bat with issues which will only progress and as I can’t afford another horse, it’s a big risk for me considering my riding goals. However, I am already expecting any upper level horse to need maintenance one day (but don’t want to start with it!) and I know the same thing could happen to a horse that starts with clean x-rays. I am also the type of person who has allowed fears to keep me back from some really great opportunities in my life, so I am not a good judge of what’s reasonable or not. When I listen to myself I feel like I sound like someone who just doesn’t want to put money into my animals for maintenance, and I hate how it comes off to my ears, even though I know this isn’t at all the heart of the issue. I’m okay with accepting most horses don’t have perfect vettings, and I’ve bought horses with imperfect vettings in the past, but this one makes me more nervous due to my riding goals and the horse’s age. I’ve been told this issue could be a huge financial investment to manage and still end in heartbreak. Am I being reasonable? Too conservative? I could really use some dialogue about this, to help clear my head a bit. Thanks for reading!

Doesn’t sound like you are in a situation where you may want to cope with a horse that could have serious health problems and take many resources to keep sound and as a working horse?

If you had an established stable, other horses to work with, maybe a chance on this one could make sense, as one more project, hoping all works and if not, plenty other horses to keep doing what you want to do.

Grandma’s words, “when in doubt, don’t” come to mind.

[2tempe]

If you are wanting an upper level prospect, I’d pass on this one. We all know its a crap shoot with any young(or older) horse because they do what they do, but I see no value in starting with a glaring finding on the PPE. Even if its next to nothing $$.

[MadTrotter]

He’s 3. Who knows if he has upper level potential for many other reasons at this stage anyways. The only way I’d take a chance on this kind of horse would be if it was free and I could just toss him out in a pasture for 2 years to see what happened with that fusion naturally under his own usage. And then be willing to do the right thing under worst case scenario.

Someone who can do this for him would be doing a favor to the breeder.

Given what you’ve told me, it seems like you want to put your next horse into serious work soon(ish). I would pass.

[sonestra]

I am at an established stable, but no real opportunity to progress with one horse as most horses are in full training. I just catch ride for the most part. To be honest, I much more enjoy riding my own horses most of the time, and just helping others out with their own. For many many years, I did what you suggested and it wasn’t joyful for me, unfortunately. It did work for me for a long time, though!

[sonestra]

No, actually I do not want this horse to be in work right away. I actually wanted to take it easy for the next year, if horse vetted clean and I took him home, but both vets said that is not in the horse’s best interest when it comes to fusing joints. They need to be in a very careful balance of working hard enough to create inflammation which will hasten the fusing, and not creating too much that it affects the rest of their joints. Paraphrased. I wanted just a nice relaxing year of growing and developing, to be honest.

[leesa1]

@sonestra

I have been given the opportunity to purchase a lovely upper level dressage prospect for next to nothing, due to findings on x-ray.

@sonestra

so I am not a good judge of what’s reasonable or not

If the horse is cheap and you have the facilities to keep him as a pet without much consequence to yourself, then sure, grab him. His chances of unsoundness are high, so if you have a spare paddock that he can live in if the roll of the dice results in him being totally unsuitable for the job… then do it.

Except most of us don’t have that. Most of us have to pay for boarding or don’t have a spare paddock, most of us can’t afford another horse’s regularly farriery, worming, dentals and vet checkups… especially when you then have to get another horse that’s rideable and pay for that one’s upkeep too.

He’s 3, he hasn’t held up to ANY reasonable level of work, he has arthritis basically straight out of the womb. You know he won’t be sellable if he turns out to be too unsound to work on that hock. Can you afford to keep him if you can’t find a buyer for him? Yes most horses have niggles but this one was basically born with an impediment and there’s nothing wrong with trying to reduce the instances of points of failure, and this one has a massive point of failure before he’s even begun his work.

If it were me, given that I don’t have the facilities, I wouldn’t touch him. It’s too much of a gamble.

[MadTrotter]

@sonestra

They need to be in a very careful balance of working hard enough to create inflammation which will hasten the fusing, and not creating too much that it affects the rest of their joints.

If a 3 year old can’t be comfortable under his own weight without serious, careful monitoring, I don’t see how this is worth hoping he’ll be suitable for real work years down the line.

I assume they won’t alcohol fuse Bc the horse is so young. What you’ve laid out sounds like something rehab facilities are paid big $$ to do under expert care, which is the opposite of relaxing fun spent with a promising young horse. Hard pass.

[Amy3996]

Hard pass. I watched a friend ignore all advice and gamble on a then 5yo with significant changes (among a multitude of other issues). 18 months later, she’s spending hundreds of dollars a month trying to keep him walk/trot sound and he’s a likely candidate for euthanasia in the not-too-distant future.

The purchase might be cheap, but the maintenance won’t be. Walk away.

[beau159]

@sonestra

Hello everyone,

I have been given the opportunity to purchase a lovely upper level dressage prospect for next to nothing, due to findings on x-ray. The horse is currently sound in light work (only due to age, not light work due to findings), but has significant changes to the lower hock (caudal part of the distal intertarsal) in which it appears to be fusing. Horse is only 3. One vet told me to run, and another other vet thought it wasn’t as bad as the first vet thought, that these things happen and can be largely inconsequential, and that I could be missing out on a great horse, since horse is sound (I’ve ridden many “sound” horses that have ended up having significant injuries and issues that they were internalizing, so not terribly soothed by that alone). Vet also seems to think once the horse fuses, the issue would be gone. The first vet however, said horse may never fuse and would be operating at some degree of pain indefinitely if that happens. Also, my understanding is that fusing isn’t a guarantee of future soundness. I also fear other joints or parts of the body becoming compromised in the process, as they compensate, which the first vet also mentioned.

I am more conservative, and look at this like we are already starting off the bat with issues which will only progress and as I can’t afford another horse, it’s a big risk for me considering my riding goals. However, I am already expecting any upper level horse to need maintenance one day (but don’t want to start with it!) and I know the same thing could happen to a horse that starts with clean x-rays. I am also the type of person who has allowed fears to keep me back from some really great opportunities in my life, so I am not a good judge of what’s reasonable or not. When I listen to myself I feel like I sound like someone who just doesn’t want to put money into my animals for maintenance, and I hate how it comes off to my ears, even though I know this isn’t at all the heart of the issue. I’m okay with accepting most horses don’t have perfect vettings, and I’ve bought horses with imperfect vettings in the past, but this one makes me more nervous due to my riding goals and the horse’s age. I’ve been told this issue could be a huge financial investment to manage and still end in heartbreak. Am I being reasonable? Too conservative? I could really use some dialogue about this, to help clear my head a bit. Thanks for reading!

Now I am not a dressage rider, but I dabble in lots of other things, including barrel racing. Fusing hocks don’t scare me. They can usually be easily managed with hock injections, supplements (like Adequane or pentosan) and Equioxx.

I get that horse is young but my Red was probably in that same category. I bought him at age 6 and didn’t know he had the fusing changes (I did not do a PPE). When we figured out what was going on halfway through his 7 year old year, he already more than half fused in his right hind (the “upper” of the lower joint). I took him to two different vets and they both agreed he probably had very early changes, possibly even born with fusing changing. I got him injected, and didn’t look back. He did just fine. If I remember my timeline correctly, that spot was fully fused at about age 9. He is 15 years old this year, and several years ago the other hock started fusing. He just gets injected when he needs it. He’s on Equioxx during the competition season (for his front feet). His hock don’t bother him.

So, again, fusing hocks would not deter me.

Yes, there is a chance horse would never fuse. But you just manage it anyway, like you would until they would fuse.

If you really like the horse otherwise, I would go for it. Personally. And KEEP THE HORSE IN WORK. That will continue to encourage the fusing process. That faster the horse gets to full fusion, the better off you are!! Obviously the horse is 3 so you aren’t going to work them hard, but they can still maintain a level of exercise.

But you are the one who has to pay the vet bills.

[StormyDay]

One of my geldings has a fusing right hock. We have been waiting about 2 years, it’s still fusing. He’s 8 now. I keep him on equioxx at the recommendation of my vet. He’s in full work, zero issues, loves his job, loves jumping. The only reason I knew to look for something being wrong was that he was a little stiff to turn to the right. He has never had issues with lead changes or jumping.

My other gelding is 21 now and he has had pretty significant hock arthritis since he was about 10-12. Despite this he happily jumped around with me on no pain meds up until he turned 19; that’s when I started the equioxx for him too. It’s given him even more time to enjoy his favorite job without feeling any pain.

I personally would not be worried about fusing hocks, but maybe that’s just because to me hock issues are just part of the experience of owning horses. I’ve met very few that didn’t have something going on in the hocks; even horses who were pasture pets all their life. And the best medicine for arthritis is movement!

[sportyspicepony]

The hock might not be the only thing you end up worrying about, but also compensatory movement to avoid putting weight on the painful hock that causes injuries elsewhere! I would pass. There are tons of horses out there.

[Equibrit]

Fact Sheet by a most respected Veterinary University;

bone_spavin.pdf

Base your decision on known facts - no “ifs”.

[McGurk]

I have taken risks on horses with big questions on the PPE, but it every case that I did so, the horse had a resume and history to offset the problem found on the PPE.

Bad xrays on a horse that’s been sound and showing for years, currently sound and cheerfully doing its job? Calculated risk worth taking.

Old set bow or other blemish on a horse handling a regular work load? Not a problem.

But this horse is 3 and has only been in light work, and has a seriously limiting finding. There’s nothing to offset the finding. You don’t really know if he has the mind or the aptitude for the work you want to do yet.

I also would be deeply suspicious of the cause of significant arthritis in a 3 year old - is there another underlying issue like OCD or epiphycitis?

Finally, you want an upper level dressage horse. Hocks are always going to be a big issue, maybe the issue. I can see accepting that an adult horse doing collected work will need joint maintenece, but starting there? At three and in light work? No way.

In short, run, don’t walk away.

[sonestra]

Thank you, everyone. I have decided to pass on this horse. I’m not in the position to take such a risk.

[stargzng386]

I’m glad you decided to pass. I bought a yearling, he started having some issues at 2 with hock arthritis on X-rays. He declined and didn’t respond to any normal arthritis treatments and he was chemically fused as a Hail Mary. He came sound I got a few months riding him into his 4 year old year but he declined again and no amount of $$$ will fix him. He’s retired I’m paying board, dental, vet, farrier and he’ll probably have to be euthanized fairly young. I don’t wish this on anyone

[sonestra]

Yes, and I found out someone else bought the horse without a PPE, and I truly feel badly about that.

[stargzng386]

Yikes that really sucks especially since they won’t even know to do some preventative stuff until it’s actually a problem.

[sara78]

Me too, bought a yearling, AT two hé was lame and ar four injections lasted for about a month, i sold him as a companion horse. Retired AT 4 Years ols

[Angela_Freda]

@sonestra

Yes, and I found out someone else bought the horse without a PPE, and I truly feel badly about that.

So someone sold this horse to an unsuspecting buyer without disclosing this issue?
That’s horrible.