At wits end with horse's injuries and behavioral problems

[TheJenners]

Can I ask what the meltdown in hand consists of, ie bolting, rearing, striking?

I would take a very good look at his feet. I had a sweet OTTB who had been restarted and I was her second off-track owner, she was 5ish when I got her (I think, it’s been a bit). She was a stoic girl, nothing bothered her, I mean nothing, she was 5 going on 20. Then one day she bolted under saddle, no warning, like she had been hit with a cattle prod. She did this intermittently for a while, I mean HUGE bolts. I got off at a clinic and a pro got on, thinking I’m just blowing it all out of proportion and I’m stupid, and she bolted under the pro so hard she landed behind the saddle. I buted her for the second day of the clinic and everything was fine, so I figured it was pain related. I had my regular vet out, he did flexions and a general exam, palpated everywhere, nada, and the behavior didn’t present that day. Continued, had him out again, this time she bolted on the lunge, I mean WHAMMO tally ho, hold on for dear life, and then just as quickly, stopped. We started her on regumate and vet warned that the only time he has seen this behavior was a horse who was PTS and necropsy revealed some sort of massive tumor wrapped around his intestines that was causing who knows what sort of pain. Went to another vet who did sporthorses almost specifically and after describing everything, xrayed her neck (she cribbed) and back, freakin nada.

Then one day I came out and she was missing a whole side chunk of hoof wall from the nail holes down. She had massive WLD that had left painful hollows under her hoof walls. Resected most of her hoof wall and spent a LARGE amount of time treating and regrowing. She never did the behavior again and I wound up selling her to a friend as the family’s first horse and she stayed with them until she died.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

I have come to believe that there are some horses who suffer from mental illness, certainly anxiety and depression although maybe different than what humans experience. Some seem to suffer from something similar to PTSD, and experiences comparable to panic attacks. I have seen one and heard of several others that have episodes that resemble psychotic breaks, where they seem out of touch with reality and violently attack something nobody else can see. This is very dangerous. Perhaps these are all pain reactions, but I really think that mental illness can occur either as a result of physical trauma or independently. I don’t know that this is the case with your horse, and if so how best to deal with it since I don’t think there are diagnostics or treatments readily available.

[BH03]

I can’t imagine its sleep deprivation. He’s a champion sleeper - laid down his first night home after having back surgery (much to my surgeon’s shock!) and lays down almost every night. He’s just not as happy laying down/sleeping if he’s turned out, he’s more comfortable in a stall or a large shed.

It’s probably been at least two years since he had his feet x-rayed, but last radiographs didn’t show any findings. It sounds like NPA/other hoof angle issues are often found with kissing spine horses or “not quite right” horses. If I had it in me to keep digging, this would be where I went next.

For more context on the melt downs:

In hand, he likes to mix it up. Sometimes it’s a bolt in hand, sometimes it’s rearing with some Black Beauty level strike outs, and a few times he’s basically capriole’d. He will also do all three on the lunge. He has NEVER done anything like that under saddle, even when he was in a lot of pain, but he also hasn’t been ridden in over a year now. Sometimes the in hand meltdowns can be resolved fast, sometimes he’s inconsolable until he’s had time in his stall or field.

He will also sometimes just get really “up” for no reason - the other day I was leading him in and he was jigging, snorting at nothing, and spooked at things he doesn’t care about. He will carry that tension to the crossties or his stall - in this case, he was moving back and forth on the crossties and reacting to every little touch, wouldn’t stand still long enough for me to pick his feet, decided fly spray was deadly, etc. On a normal day none of these things are an issue. When I got him in his stall in this instance, he actually proceeded to spook at things that never bother him (normal “barn noises”). I was worried so I watched him a while and after 10 minutes he was back to normal and eating hay.

I’ve actually called some of these moments “psychotic breaks” because they feel different than anything I’ve experienced before. With my horse, his way of telling me he’s in pain (how I found his KS, ulcers, other soundness issues) was actually very subtle. This feels more like PTSD or some weird mental switch has flipped. 90% of the time he follows me around like a well mannered Labrador. When I’ve seen other horses act explosively it was more predictable (ex. a previous horse I rode was very stall aggressive but fine once outside his stall) or because they haven’t been properly trained and desensitized.

I really appreciate everyone’s insights and support. I was feeling like I haven’t done enough for him and felt guilty thinking retirement (permanent or temporary) might be the best path.

[skip99]

What does he eat exactly? My mare used to explode in hand which I could never see a visible cause for. There were a couple of signs before explosion - a change to her eye and it was like every muscle would just tighten and she would just be coming out of her skin. It has been fixed by diet - I switched to the soy free tribute ration balancer. Any time I have attempted to add any grain with soy the same problem comes back. Probably a left field option but she went from needing a chain or rope halter to walking relaxed on a normal lead in less than 2 weeks. She was around 4/5 years old at the time and has been wonderful to handle on the ground since now 7 years old(she’s quirky under saddle and while the diet change helped that too, she still has her moments )

[HunterDuSc]

I feel like I could have written the same post about a year and a half ago. At the time, I he was a 5 year old warmblood and I had spent more on this horse in vet care and diagnostics than I ever had on my previous mare who I had for 15 years. I would rehab one injury and just get to the point of trotting and he would get scary to handle. I finally sent him for training/rehab but then he would hurt himself again.

I was at my whits end with him and finally posted here about turning a horse out on field board. I was pretty nervous about it. But honestly a year of Dr Green is the best thing I ever did for him. I’ve never had a horse out all the time but he’s doing so well.

I took the time to find a small herd situation and he still gets grained twice a day. The barn monitors to ensure he eats it and doesn’t get stolen. It was stressful for me but he finally transitioned and learned to sleep in his run in at night.

I’m bringing him back to work again. He doesn’t feel perfect yet and that is to be seen, but his attitude is a 180. I do ride in the arena but most of his rehab has been trot sets out on the trails alone. I never would have guessed that this horse that used to frantically bolt could ever be like this. Just wanted to lend my story. You have got lots of other great advise but I was also at a point where I was emotionally and financially drained from him and now I truly enjoy going to the barn again.

[BH03]

This is so reassuring to hear. Good luck to you and your horse! I hope the barn continues to be a source of joy for you. Thank you for sharing your story.

[pony_baloney]

Is he getting MSM? Some horses can have behavior changes while taking it. There are a few threads about it.

[punchy]

Is he medically cleared for riding? If so, I would start getting him working under tack again and see if that helps. Something about getting on them relaxes them in a way in-hand work doesn’t. And boredom for sensitive, hot horses can and does turn ugly; no schedule/lots of barn changes don’t help either.

[4horses]

I would switch him to full turnout with a buddy horse and a run in. Most horses get used to coming in and get a little spoiled. They want in because the bugs are bad or it’s feeding time, the other horses are in, etc. What does he do that makes you think he can’t handle longer turn out?

He has been locked up and out of work for a year now?

I would want him ridden 5-6 miles a couple times a week. And I don’t mean galloping like a fool. Get someone on him and go trot him out. Yes a couple times a week. If you can’t handle him, find a rider who can.

From what you are describing I can’t tell if this is a young horse that needs more work and a program, or he has a major physical problem somewhere.

If you are done investing in this horse, put him on full turnout for a year and see how he is next year.

Any video of his behavior?

[IPEsq]

@BH03

I can’t imagine its sleep deprivation. He’s a champion sleeper - laid down his first night home after having back surgery (much to my surgeon’s shock!) and lays down almost every night. He’s just not as happy laying down/sleeping if he’s turned out, he’s more comfortable in a stall or a large shed.

It’s probably been at least two years since he had his feet x-rayed, but last radiographs didn’t show any findings. It sounds like NPA/other hoof angle issues are often found with kissing spine horses or “not quite right” horses. If I had it in me to keep digging, this would be where I went next.

For more context on the melt downs:

In hand, he likes to mix it up. Sometimes it’s a bolt in hand, sometimes it’s rearing with some Black Beauty level strike outs, and a few times he’s basically capriole’d. He will also do all three on the lunge. He has NEVER done anything like that under saddle, even when he was in a lot of pain, but he also hasn’t been ridden in over a year now. Sometimes the in hand meltdowns can be resolved fast, sometimes he’s inconsolable until he’s had time in his stall or field.

He will also sometimes just get really “up” for no reason - the other day I was leading him in and he was jigging, snorting at nothing, and spooked at things he doesn’t care about. He will carry that tension to the crossties or his stall - in this case, he was moving back and forth on the crossties and reacting to every little touch, wouldn’t stand still long enough for me to pick his feet, decided fly spray was deadly, etc. On a normal day none of these things are an issue. When I got him in his stall in this instance, he actually proceeded to spook at things that never bother him (normal “barn noises”). I was worried so I watched him a while and after 10 minutes he was back to normal and eating hay.

I’ve actually called some of these moments “psychotic breaks” because they feel different than anything I’ve experienced before. With my horse, his way of telling me he’s in pain (how I found his KS, ulcers, other soundness issues) was actually very subtle. This feels more like PTSD or some weird mental switch has flipped. 90% of the time he follows me around like a well mannered Labrador. When I’ve seen other horses act explosively it was more predictable (ex. a previous horse I rode was very stall aggressive but fine once outside his stall) or because they haven’t been properly trained and desensitized.

I really appreciate everyone’s insights and support. I was feeling like I haven’t done enough for him and felt guilty thinking retirement (permanent or temporary) might be the best path.

Every time I’ve seen this behavior it has been nerve / spinal pain or compression. Even with usually very quiet easy to handle somewhat beginner safe horses. I think I’d push pause on the rehab and turn him out and see what happens at this point. You will have to start the rehab over again but either his system will have calmed down or it won’t, either this will be a vacation or retirement. You could try Gabapentin or something first, but sometimes they are so wound up it just takes time. Being out in a quiet and safe field would be better for his back with the time off, or at least out for the vast majority of the day or out with open access to a stall if he can’t get used to run-ins. If the latter, then his buddies might need to be over the fence, but as long as horses are always around him this can work too.

[appendix100]

What part of the country are you in, & what is his living situation?
We don’t see it often, but out here we will occasionally see Jimson Weed poisoning which can cause very unpredictable behavior…

[2tempe]

OP - re your comment about feeling guilty about temporary or permanent “retirement” : I have a mare who had a string of health/soundness issues over a number of years and I kept trying and hoping things would get better. Finally she was diagnosed with suspensory branch issues in both hind legs. I said no to the extended stall rest and related rehab with a prognosis that was iffy at best. When I actually made the decision to call it quits and retire her, I did not feel guilt or pressure anymore. It was a sigh of relief rather quickly. I’m convinced now that she will live to be 100, she ambles around, occasionally trots, hasn’t had a colic event, and is on no meds after 4 years. I have moved on to another horse.

[The_Monster]

Was his neck x-rayed at all? It sounds very similar to my horse with ECVM.

[BH03]

To answer some more questions -

He is not cleared for ridden and I would not get on a horse exhibiting this behavior. If he’s experiencing unknown pain/anxiety just from walking over ground poles and in hand walking with equibands, I could only imagine what would happen if I swung my leg over

No MSM (although that’s really interesting/good to know), no jimson weed where I am, and neck x-rays (when we first found the kissing spine) were clear but they are two years old at this point.

& then my final decision -

I went through my journal that I use to take notes on how my rides/sessions with my horses go and realized we’ve been battling the "not-quite-right"ness for a long time. I was really hoping the kissing spine was “it”, but it was not 100% of “it”.

After talking it through a bit more with some people I trust, I’ve decided to retire him all together. He’s very happy in the field and he’s going to be turned out with a small herd and even give him some alone time if needed to ensure he’s eating enough. Lastly, he’s the type of horse that really cannot handle stall rest and I know, if I found something else that required that, I wouldn’t want to subject him to that again anyway given he’s pasture sound.

It’s so hard to balance doing right by the horse, not subjecting the horse to too much poking/prodding/boredom, and taking care of yourself mentally. I appreciate everyone’s help.

[SusanO]

Sometimes you just have to make peace with yourself that you can’t make the horse sound. I have one like that ( long story) but finally I just had to accept we were not going to be able to ever fix her feet even though she came close to being sound a few times. Yes she is still here being high maintenance because I have a farm but I am not stressing over what might just work this time. Because we tried many things and it was time to just let her be a pasture ornament. Horses are not like cars - when things are broken sometimes they just can’t be fixed. It sucks. I know!